[PGT] Stars 5 Flames 4 (OT)

[Saqe]

In a best of three the stats don't mean much anymore.


The Flames have the edge in goaltending and overall in defense. Dallas' defense seems very prone to errors.



Bottom line the series could go either way at this point, I could care less if Dallas has more puck possession and shots if the Flames can limit their chances to the outside.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Saqe

In a best of three the stats don't mean much anymore.


The Flames have the edge in goaltending and overall in defense. Dallas' defense seems very prone to errors.



Bottom line the series could go either way at this point, I could care less if Dallas has more puck possession and shots if the Flames can limit their chances to the outside.

Strange. I think the biggest narrative in the whole series so far is just how much better the Stars defencemen have been than the Flames defencemen.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Strange. I think the biggest narrative in the whole series so far is just how much better the Stars defencemen have been than the Flames defencemen.

Heiskanen has been head and shoulders above everyone else. But other than that I don't think that's the case at all but when he's playing half the game I can understand why people feel that way.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I thought the fourth line had mostly a good game - I noticed them getting the puck into the offensive zone and creating a bit of havoc there at times. Good to see them stepping up like that.


I have always been a 'pro Bennett' guy, but now I love him even more.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Heiskanen has been head and shoulders above everyone else. But other than that I don't think that's the case at all but when he's playing half the game I can understand why people feel that way.

Klingberg wasn't great in the first couple of games but he was dominant yesterday (he had something like 20 shot attempts).

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GGG

When you have a CF% of 28.8% you are going to take a lot of penalties. So I don't see this as NHL game management. Its flames prevent defense preventing them from winning.

It's actually not the Flames penalties I'm too worried about, when you're stuck in your own end you're going to take penalties.

But I'm more concerned with the lack of Stars penalties in that time period.

Watching some of the games and Stars can get away with murder when they are trailing. Hooking/Holding/Interference a lot of the time which is adding to Flames inability to get out of their own end.

Couple of instances last night where Flames forward is breaking out only to get hooked/held by the Stars and then instead of the puck going deep it's a turnover in the neutral zone/at our blueline. Stars have been better while trailing but don't think they've only taken one minor in 104 minutes of hockey in that time.

[Makarov]

I'm in a strange place this morning. I've come to terms with the situation. The Flames are playing with intensity, guts and purpose so far. I can't fault them on that front. However, subject to what happens in the next couple of games, its becoming increasingly clear that the four months last season where they were one of the best teams in the league was an anomaly. This team, with most of its star players in the middle of their primes, does not appear to be one of the best teams in the league.

So it may soon be time to once again recite the tried-and-true Flames fan mantra: where do we go from here? Is it time to accept that this is yet another failed Flames team (joining the post-Stanley Cup Fleury-led team, the "Young Guns" [shudder], and the post-2004 Iginla-led team)? It feels that way.

I'm happy about the emergence of Dube and Bennett. I'm excited about Valimaki and hoping that Kylington still has room to grow. I'm pretty concerned with the way Hanifin and Andersson were caved in over the past few games. I'm even more concerned about the lack of blue chip prospects (with legitimate elite potential) in the development system.

Its too bad. I was so excited about the future of this team after the win against Vancouver in 2015. It seemed like we were on the cusp of something good. Sigh. Maybe one day.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I'm in a strange place this morning. I've come to terms with the situation. The Flames are playing with intensity, guts and purpose so far. I can't fault them on that front. However, subject to what happens in the next couple of games, its becoming increasingly clear that the four months last season where they were one of the best teams in the league was an anomaly. This team, with most of its star players in the middle of their primes, does not appear to be one of the best teams in the league.

So it may soon be time to once again recite the tried-and-true Flames fan mantra: where do we go from here? Is it time to accept that this is yet another failed Flames team (joining the post-Stanley Cup Fleury-led team, the "Young Guns" [shudder], and the post-2004 Iginla-led team)? It feels that way.

I'm happy about the emergence of Dube and Bennett. I'm excited about Valimaki and hoping that Kylington still has room to grow. I'm pretty concerned with the way Hanifin and Andersson were caved in over the past few games. I'm even more concerned about the lack of blue chip prospects (with legitimate elite potential) in the development system.

Its too bad. I was so excited about the future of this team after the win against Vancouver in 2015. It seemed like we were on the cusp of something good. Sigh. Maybe one day.

You just enjoy the ride - win or lose. That's sports.



I haven't looked at this quite the same way as you - as possibly being 'failed'. However, regardless of winning or losing, I am confident that this team drafts and develops much better. This is a better-run organization than from the times you allude to. The post '89 Flames era didn't have the drafting and development program that you see now. They didn't regularly head up their own AHL team. Their scouting staff for many years was tiny.



I am ok with this long-term. These aren't the Edmonton Oilers that I hopelessly cheer for. These are the Calgary Flames that are a fairly well-run organization and are finding a lot of players in the drafts. That means it is easier to both find complimentary players to help this current team succeed, do a quick 're-tool', or even totally rebuild this again. There is no guarantee to winning, and that's what makes it extra-special when you do. However, this team has done a fairly good job of finding players through the draft, and that's one of the more difficult things to get right consistently.


Just enjoy the ride and the different emotions that it brings. WHEN the Flames do win a cup, it will be that much more satisfying.

[The Professor]

Also, we’re in the middle of a hard-fought, super exciting play-off series. Why are so many deciding this is the moment to bail on the team. This is literally the best part of cheering for a team! Enjoy it! Save the post mortem for when it’s all over (in round two or three)!

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Professor

Also, we’re in the middle of a hard-fought, super exciting play-off series. Why are so many deciding this is the moment to bail on the team. This is literally the best part of cheering for a team! Enjoy it! Save the post mortem for when it’s all over (in round two or three)!

That's fair. I'm definitely still watching and cheering for a series win. I just can't help but be struck by some of the similarities to the Colorado series last season and what that means for the future of the team. But yes, there is definitely still time to change the narrative and I hope they do!

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Klingberg wasn't great in the first couple of games but he was dominant yesterday (he had something like 20 shot attempts).

Klinberg is really good offensively of course but defensively he has his warts. I still think defensively the Flames structure as a whole is better compared to Dallas. Heiskanen is a game changer though.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Makarov

That's fair. I'm definitely still watching and cheering for a series win. I just can't help but be struck by some of the similarities to the Colorado series last season and what that means for the future of the team. But yes, there is definitely still time to change the narrative and I hope they do!

I think few would disagree with the opinion that the Flames need to make adjustments and be better. Yeah, we're allowing way too many shots. Inside or outside doesn't matter at some point too much is just too much.

Other than that we're doing pretty okay. Special teams have been mostly very good, although adjustments probably need to be made there too, scoring is pretty good, goaltending is okay, effort level is there, physicality is there, even our Dynamic Duo in offense has started to warm up.

Allowing a ton of shots is not a minor problem, but as I recall, the Colorado series was more of a mess overall. I remember telling my gf that I'm 99% sure that the Flames were going to lose the last two games, that's how bad things looked.

This year I think we're the underdogs, but it's like at worst 40% chance to win each game. I also feel like Dallas HAS to be closer to the top of their game to win. Their high is higher, but their low is way lower.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Saqe

In a best of three the stats don't mean much anymore.


The Flames have the edge in goaltending and overall in defense. Dallas' defense seems very prone to errors.



Bottom line the series could go either way at this point, I could care less if Dallas has more puck possession and shots if the Flames can limit their chances to the outside.

At this point, just find a way.

We can bitch about how they did it afterward.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I stand by the fact that the penalty calls changed this game.

Two calls late in each of the 1st and 2nd periods (2 minutes left...conveniently), both calls extremely suspicious.

Dallas scores on both power plays.

Then there were 5 straight calls that went against the Flames in the 3rd. I won't complain about the calls because they were all legitimate, but I did notice a few obvious calls that the Flames could have received from the refs, but nothing.

People can talk about how bad the Flames were, but those penalty calls really, really tipped momentum in favor of Dallas. It's easy to feel good about yourself when you're getting chances on the power play. Without that, the Stars had nothing all game long 5 on 5.

Then you get to late in the 3rd, and OT, and the Flames were just gassed from defending for so long. It takes a toll on you, and with no power plays of your own, it's just incredibly hard to tilt the ice back in your favor.

I'm not saying it's all about officiating, but it played a HUGE role in this game. Suspicious calls, timing of calls, and sequence of calls all played into Dallas' favor (all except the obvious goaltender interference call).

The Flames battled hard, but they just didn't have anything left. Going to have to learn from that and find a way to build momentum from a good penalty kill, rather than letting it suck momentum from you.

From the 18 minute mark of the 2nd to the 12 minute mark of the 3rd, the Flames had to kill 10 penalty minutes (10 of the 14 minutes). That's going to drain you and shift momentum for the other team.

And yet, they were still winning the game. They were defending well, but the defensive specialists for the Flames were exhausted from all the PK time. They just had nothing left in the tank at the end, and the Stars were able to take advantage with just 11 seconds left.

Learn from this. Discipline is important. Balanced ice time is a factor for the end of the game, especially when your top defenders are older. Momentum is a big factor in playoff hockey.

I feel the same Cali, I avoided CP until this morning and reading this thread but it just seemed like the team couldn't do anything after killing all those penalties.

I bet we see a much more disciplined team tomorrow, there is no way they win this series taking that many penalties, whether it was the refs fault on suspicious plays or not. We can win this series, the stars aren't that scary 5 v 5 and neither have we to be honest, but I think our special teams and goalie are better.

Thanks Cali, this is a great analysis.

[Toonage]

Let's see how this team battles back from genuine adversity. No Tkachuk, heartbreaking loss that left them exhausted, etc. Tomorrow will be a fascinating game for a number of reasons. I think they have it in them to win this series. Look how close they were to sweeping this, save a few bad bounces or just poor luck.

This has been a gutsy team that looks nothing like the one that went out last spring to Colorado. There is fight here. I was upset with the 2nd game against Winnipeg but its been a focused crew since, even with the 2 losses to Dallas.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Let's see how this team battles back from genuine adversity. No Tkachuk, heartbreaking loss that left them exhausted, etc. Tomorrow will be a fascinating game for a number of reasons. I think they have it in them to win this series. Look how close they were to sweeping this, save a few bad bounces or just poor luck.

This has been a gutsy team that looks nothing like the one that went out last spring to Colorado. There is fight here. I was upset with the 2nd game against Winnipeg but its been a focused crew since, even with the 2 losses to Dallas.

It's amazing how quickly the Flames folded at the first sign of adversity in last year's playoffs.

This year's playoffs are different, and I'm glad to see the fight and that's really all I asked for. Fight.

There are some mental mistakes happening like Lindholm trying to ring the puck in the opposite direction of his body with 11 seconds left, or Johnny constantly trying the same thing in the O-zone, guys not clearing the zone with urgency, etc. Hopefully this gets cleaned up and they win the series. Credit to Dallas too for putting up fight after the Flames basically schooled them in Game 1 and parts of Game 3. Heiskenen is scary good and has the ability to swing momentum of the series himself.

I'm enjoying myself in these playoffs.

[Enoch Root]

Shots were 28 - 28 and the Flames had a 3-2 lead, when Talbot got called for that very suspect tripping call with 2 minutes left in the 2nd period.

After 5 consecutive penalties over the course of the next 14 minutes, the game, and the momentum, were completely changed.

Also, the Flames penalty killers, including Lindholm and all of the D, were exhausted.

[Enoch Root]

Not only as Monahan's penalty really weak, but 10 seconds earlier, on the same shift, Gaudreau took a stick to the face, during a scoring chance, 6 feet in front of the ref, who was looking directly at him.

Then they call Monahan for a high stick, despite the fact that his stick doesn't hit him.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think Dallas' defense has been a lot better...

Heiskinen is the best player on the ice (an argument can be made for Talbot too), but Olesiak has looked good as has Klingberg.

I saw an awful lot of turnovers and bad clearing attempts from calgary defense the other day... Dallas' forecheck really owned calgary in the last couple of games imo.

[Beninho]

If the Flames got 5 straight PP’s I’m sure the Stars would’ve looked just as tired as our guys. That is what won them the game and they barely won. Flames were exhausted.