[News] Hamonic opts out of Return to Play

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Shiny trophy <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Family.

At least some people have souls still. Not everyone is bound to throw everything away for a 1 in however many chance to lift a heavy trophy over their heads.

Oh my goodness. Of course family is more important than a trophy ...

But then there are levels of risk that can be assessed based on the info available, the ability to manage risk to selves and family ..

This is fun, perhaps you can define what a soul is in your perspective. Is it something unique to a handful of NHL guys like Sven, Polak, Hamonic and Mike Kitchen?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

My cousin is an ICU doctor in London and he has been sleeping at a hotel since March as he is dealing one-on-one with Covid patients and because his parents are old (he's not worried about infecting his kids, but his parents babysit his kids while he's doing his 18 hour shifts). To me, that's a hero. He ran the odds and recognizes a real risk (his parents are in their 80s and each are at a 10%-33% chance of dying if infected). He's making a real sacrifice for his society by basically being separated from his family full time for months. And he runs the risk of infection himself every day. He's sacrificing for society at large.

Other people are also sacrificing by taking risks. People in meatpacking plants, uber drivers, front line grocery store workers, people in restaurants. It's everyone's job to minimize their risk of infection, while still trying to serve each other. Everyone should be washing their hands, adhere to social distancing and wear a mask. But everyone who can, should still endeavor to find a way to do their job. That's our society. It's service and sacrifice for each other.

Now I compare that to Hamonic and I don't get the love. He would be separated from his family, so they run no risk of infection from him. He gets tested daily and could quarantine for 14 days after his playoff run is over. If he or anyone in his family gets COVID, they're going to be dependent on medical staff risking the lives of themselves and their family to help them. All the food he's eating and stuff he's consuming comes from people who are taking COVID risks. Yet, he's not willing to take what I would consider a negligible risk decision because of his perception of risk.

I respect Hamonics right to make his decision. I don't respect his decision. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play another NHL game.

Is anyone arguing that Harmonic is a hero, or that the doctor in your story isn't?

Harmonic made a rational decision. He isn't saving lives by playing, so why don't you respect the decision?

[lazypucker]

Maybe Hamonic foresee that the Flames will be bounced in 3 games and he thought why bother going through all the trouble just for that....

</greentext>

[DeluxeMoustache]

I was thinking the other way around. Winnipeg has only 3 goalies. That’s 1 per game

[ForeverFlameFan]

Wow, this thread is cringe to read.

Getting hockey right now is a privilege, not a luxury.

Hamonic is free to choose what is best not only for him but his family.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

My cousin is an ICU doctor in London and he has been sleeping at a hotel since March as he is dealing one-on-one with Covid patients and because his parents are old (he's not worried about infecting his kids, but his parents babysit his kids while he's doing his 18 hour shifts). To me, that's a hero. He ran the odds and recognizes a real risk (his parents are in their 80s and each are at a 10%-33% chance of dying if infected). He's making a real sacrifice for his society by basically being separated from his family full time for months. And he runs the risk of infection himself every day. He's sacrificing for society at large.

Other people are also sacrificing by taking risks. People in meatpacking plants, uber drivers, front line grocery store workers, people in restaurants. It's everyone's job to minimize their risk of infection, while still trying to serve each other. Everyone should be washing their hands, adhere to social distancing and wear a mask. But everyone who can, should still endeavor to find a way to do their job. That's our society. It's service and sacrifice for each other.

Now I compare that to Hamonic and I don't get the love. He would be separated from his family, so they run no risk of infection from him. He gets tested daily and could quarantine for 14 days after his playoff run is over. If he or anyone in his family gets COVID, they're going to be dependent on medical staff risking the lives of themselves and their family to help them. All the food he's eating and stuff he's consuming comes from people who are taking COVID risks. Yet, he's not willing to take what I would consider a negligible risk decision because of his perception of risk.

I respect Hamonics right to make his decision. I don't respect his decision. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play another NHL game.

Way to strawman the whole conversation. Who in this thread called Hamonic a hero? People respect his decision because he's thinking what's best for his kids and for his family. So you don't respect the decision of a person who decides to not go into work at a meat plant to minimize the risk to their family?

It just blows my mind how selfish some people here are. Like they are entitled to hockey, and players should all just go in for their entertainment. Way to be a compassionate individual.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Way to strawman the whole conversation. Who in this thread called Hamonic a hero? People respect his decision because he's thinking what's best for his kids and for his family. So you don't respect the decision of a person who decides to not go into work at a meat plant to minimize the risk to their family?

It just blows my mind how selfish some people here are. Like they are entitled to hockey, and players should all just go in for their entertainment. Way to be a compassionate individual.

Dirty packed meat plant vs. hockey in a bubble with the top medical professionals.

Harmonic has the right to make the call but I don't think his family is any safer because of it. We will see if safety is actually his concern come the offseason/December. If he goes and signs a big deal and is playing again in a few months that would be telling IMO

[Strange Brew]

Such extreme perspectives.

IMO it is possible to respect Hamonic's decision without demonizing people who place value on their career as well. Is everyone who goes off to work and accepting some risk above zero showing callous disregard for the health and safety of their family?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Such extreme perspectives.

IMO it is possible to respect Hamonic's decision without demonizing people who place value on their career as well. Is everyone who goes off to work and accepting some risk above zero showing callous disregard for the health and safety of their family?

What I'm reading is that people for the most part respect the player's right and ability to make their own decision.
And primarily what people are objecting to, is the small number of posters, who are NOT respecting the decision or assuming that Hamonic's stated reasons for not participating are not true.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think he could easily be safer at home if he is practicing the bubble lifestyle. At home, he would have way more control over the situation. There seems to be an assumption by some that Hamonic is gallivanting around as if everything is normal rather than living a bubble lifestyle. The NHL didn't invent this concept and I don't see how their system is better than what people could be practicing at home if their situation required it. Sure, the NHL is testing more, but testing like crazy is a moot point if you are truly physical distancing anyway. They have to test like crazy because they are not physically distancing the way that medical professionals have been recommending. The fact they need to test this much should be a warning sign for anyone that thinks there isn't a pretty big risk.

People also need to consider that even though his child recovered from her illness, we don't know any other medical details. A child that gets that sick could easily have a weaker immune system. If my child was in such a situation, I would do everything I could to be as close to 100% in control as I could.

As for what he decides to do in December, it is really hard to know what the situation will be then and it may be dependent on how this experiment goes. If the NHL is very successful with this attempt, I wouldn't blame Hamonic if he decides to play at that point. Not wanting to be a guinea pig at this point is different than deciding to play after the system is proven.

I think the mods around here do a fantastic job and show a lot of patience, I personally would have locked this thread already. Some of the comments have been embarrassing.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Dirty packed meat plant vs. hockey in a bubble with the top medical professionals.

Harmonic has the right to make the call but I don't think his family is any safer because of it. We will see if safety is actually his concern come the offseason/December. If he goes and signs a big deal and is playing again in a few months that would be telling IMO

You don't think, but you really don't know. All we know is that playing has, at best, no increase in risk for his family, and at worst, an extremely high increase in risk for his family. But none of us can say where that risk falls. And it's quite easy to pass judgement when you don't care about the lives of his children in the way he does.

As we've seen in the past four months, things change rapidly. Maybe if everything remains exactly the same and he freely goes and plays without concern next season (December?) sure, but the chances of everything remaining the same as today are zero.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Such extreme perspectives.

IMO it is possible to respect Hamonic's decision without demonizing people who place value on their career as well. Is everyone who goes off to work and accepting some risk above zero showing callous disregard for the health and safety of their family?

Such dependency on strawmen, too. Of course not everyone who goes off to work is showing callous disregard for the health and safety of their family. Who has said that? Who has even alluded to it? You have a habit of arguing with thin air.

The position that the decision of putting family first and not going into work (when given the choice, in a completely non-essential job that is strictly entertainment, and not in any way needing the minor income it might provide) isn't worthy of respect? I agree, that is an extreme perspective.

Some people are called to essential roles. Some people need to go to work to support themselves or their family. Going to work in these situations increases the risk on yourself or your family, but it must be done. They are no more worthy or unworthy of respect.

Give us one reason why Hamonic must go to work to have his position respected. And why you, in the same situation (experience with respiratory disease, almost losing a family member, don't need the money, non-essential role by every measure, and given the option) would say "You know, I'm going to work anyway" and why that decision deserves more respect.

[EN FUEGO]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

....
Third, I have 3 young kids of my own. And i am not worried one bit about this scamdemic flu.

Sometimes I wonder why Covid is exploding down here in the US, and then I read something like this and remember, "Oh yeah, we have idiots in abundance".

I have moved from SF to my rural property in the Sierra where I've watched this attitude slowly (at first) bring in the virus to our little county. Nobody wants to wear masks or stand 6 ft apart in the grocery lines, even now that it's surging here now. It's sad to watch, as there are a ton of retirees who also will enter Walmart with a mask on then take it off when nobody's looking.

Good for Hamonic....you don't get a "do-over" on your family's health. Hockey will be around for a long time.

I can't wait to watch hockey again, but I have to admit this feels a bit dirty, like we'll be watching gladiators go at it. There'll be an asterisk on this season, and we all know that money is the only factor causing this "experiment" to go forward.

Anyway, GO FLAMES GO and hopefully the experiment goes okay.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What I'm reading is that people for the most part respect the player's right and ability to make their own decision.
And primarily what people are objecting to, is the small number of posters, who are NOT respecting the decision or assuming that Hamonic's stated reasons for not participating are not true.

Yep I hear you. I don't really get the need to criticize someone else's personal decision. We'll never fully know their personal circumstances.

Guess I'm also seeing people stating that if you're willing to accept a risk above zero to pursue your career you don't care about your family or don't have a soul. Or that the amount of money you have somehow factors into it. That's where my comment on extreme views was coming from. Which makes me think not everyone respects the decision that other players, or workers in general. might be making.

[dino7c]

I respect his decision I just don't agree about the risk...If he is in the bubble and his family is sitting at home they are at no greater risk FACT.

Also, yes things can change by December but it's highly unlikely there is less risk by then. I would expect him to sit out the next season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hamonic has a pretty established history of being someone who will make tough decisions for his family. So this decision is totally aligned to that. And for that reason, I agree, that I wouldn't be surprised to see him sit until there is a scaled vaccine.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yep I hear you. I don't really get the need to criticize someone else's personal decision. We'll never fully know their personal circumstances.

Guess I'm also seeing people stating that if you're willing to accept a risk above zero to pursue your career you don't care about your family or don't have a soul. Or that the amount of money you have somehow factors into it. That's where my comment on extreme views was coming from. Which makes me think not everyone respects the decision that other players, or workers in general. might be making.

I think generalizing the views of others and purposely removing or changing the context to make your point does, in general, lead people to making poor conclusions. So, how you arrived here makes sense.

I hardly think comments not-in-favour of taking unnecessary risks, or that money factors into whether risks are necessary, are extreme. These are basics parts of life, don't you think?

It would be helpful to you if you read the many words clarifying these things. But I think we can safely say that the only people here who have shown a lack of respect for someone's personal decision involving their career, are the people who have said they do not respect Hamonic's.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

No... you wouldnt

Yes, I would.

[Johnhitbox]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think generalizing the views of others and purposely removing or changing the context to make your point does, in general, lead people to making poor conclusions. So, how you arrived here makes sense.

I hardly think comments not-in-favour of taking unnecessary risks, or that money factors into whether risks are necessary, are extreme. These are basics parts of life, don't you think?

It would be helpful to you if you read the many words clarifying these things. But I think we can safely say that the only people here who have shown a lack of respect for someone's personal decision involving their career, are the people who have said they do not respect Hamonic's.

I have stated many times that I respect Hamonic's decision? Full stop.

I disagree with posters who claim players are taking a "very significant risk of taking the virus home" but mostly I disagree with the arrogance and presumption behind stating whether we agree or disagree with another human being's personal decision about these matters.

I believe I have adequate reading comprehension and don't think I am guilty of the mischaracterization of which you are accusing me. But could you help me? Could you have a career goal that is important enough to you that it is worth more than a non zero risk to your health? Or your family's well being? For this argument, I believe that money does not equal career because I don't like the "how much money is enough" path. And regardless of your answer, if someone were willing to accept more risk than you does that equate to "soulless"?

[Monahammer]

Do some of you ever get tired of clapping your own backs?