2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Take Gaudreau away from Monahan and I don't think he would score 50 points and even 40 might be the limit. He might still get 20 goals, but he would be a lot more like the 34 point player he was in his rookie year than the guy he's been since.

Most players regress to their rookie year when not paired with tiny people. It's science.

[kurwamac]

How come few are talking about running 3 decent lines, sign Hall, hold Gaudreau - Flames owners could take a selfish approach:
Gaudreau - Monahan - xxx
Hall - Lindholm - xxx
Tkachuk - Backlund - xxx


Then you throw in the fillers on RW, bounce Lucic around to give him a fair chance, let him figure out if he's lost "it", then have him choose to retire after being treated respectfully..

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kurwamac

How come few are talking about running 3 decent lines, sign Hall, hold Gaudreau - Flames owners could take a selfish approach:
Gaudreau - Monahan - xxx
Hall - Lindholm - xxx
Tkachuk - Backlund - xxx


Then you throw in the fillers on RW, bounce Lucic around to give him a fair chance, let him figure out if he's lost "it", then have him choose to retire after being treated respectfully..

I don’t think the cap space exists for that lineup. I also think there will be more than one forward of those 6 not happy with their minutes.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by TOfan

To be honest, I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here.

I said IF it’s a foregone conclusion JG is going to sign in Philadelphia....there’s a difference.

I’m sure there will be a lot of interest in Gaudreau and probably from some teams no one here is talking about. What about a Montreal? I think Treliving is a very strong GM all things considered. I’m confident he will make a good trade.

Not too sure how you can state that Buffalo would be the odds on favourite to sign him. Why? Cause he would be playing for them? If that’s the thinking, shouldn’t the Flames be the odds on favourite to sign him to an extension? If he gets traded to Buffalo and if they’re still a mess, my bet would be him leaving be it through a trade or walking out the door as a UFA. As it stands today, I think JG would want to see some significant improvement before he signs a deal. It’s up to hockey ops in Buffalo to make it so. I suspect it’s going to take more than JG to get it turned around which is also why I don’t see them spending enormous asset capital for one player who has two years left on his deal.

Sorry, when you said "if it's a foregone conclusion he signs with Philadelphia, then..." I thought it implied that you thought it was a foregone conclusion. If not, I apologize, but no one brought it up before you, so there's no other way to interpret that.

If Johnny goes to buffalo, and neither he nor the team think that he's the difference maker... An elite offensive weapon in this league, then ya, it may only last 2 years. Somehow I don't think that's the case.

The reason I can confidently state that they would be the odds on favourites to sign him are:

1. They get to negotiate early and offer the longest deal.
2. He would play with eichel for 2 years and likely explode point wise.
3. He would be on an Eastern seaboard team that doesn't travel as much and is closer to home.

None of those make it a slam dunk... That's not what odds on favourites means.

It's obvious that you don't think as highly of gaudreau. That's fine. In my mind, he would be a primary piece on any championship team. I think he's a legitimate top 10 offensive player in the league, not at his position. So, when you say he "could be underpaid" like it is even a question and suggest mediocre returns (although I am just as high on Cozens as you and others), it is flummoxing to me. In my mind, he's a player teams will trip over themselves to acquire and pay through the nose for the pleasure. In reality, his contract, which you are convinced is something that hinders his return, may increase the number of bidders and drive his value. Maybe... We shall see.

[Poe969]

If he's traded to Buffalo and they can't sign him to an extension, they can just trade him at the deadline as a rental and recoup a bunch of assets.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by kurwamac

How come few are talking about running 3 decent lines, sign Hall, hold Gaudreau - Flames owners could take a selfish approach:
Gaudreau - Monahan - xxx
Hall - Lindholm - xxx
Tkachuk - Backlund - xxx


Then you throw in the fillers on RW, bounce Lucic around to give him a fair chance, let him figure out if he's lost "it", then have him choose to retire after being treated respectfully..

Id do it put Tkachuck on line 2 RW hes played RW this season before put Looch on line 1 to just park his butt infront of the goalie and have Johnny and Money bounce pucks in off of him. Stack the top two lines. Backlund can drop down to a true shut down third liner.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Sorry, when you said "if it's a foregone conclusion he signs with Philadelphia, then..." I thought it implied that you thought it was a foregone conclusion. If not, I apologize, but no one brought it up before you, so there's no other way to interpret that.

If Johnny goes to buffalo, and neither he nor the team think that he's the difference maker... An elite offensive weapon in this league, then ya, it may only last 2 years. Somehow I don't think that's the case.

The reason I can confidently state that they would be the odds on favourites to sign him are:

1. They get to negotiate early and offer the longest deal.
2. He would play with eichel for 2 years and likely explode point wise.
3. He would be on an Eastern seaboard team that doesn't travel as much and is closer to home.

None of those make it a slam dunk... That's not what odds on favourites means.

It's obvious that you don't think as highly of gaudreau. That's fine. In my mind, he would be a primary piece on any championship team. I think he's a legitimate top 10 offensive player in the league, not at his position. So, when you say he "could be underpaid" like it is even a question and suggest mediocre returns (although I am just as high on Cozens as you and others), it is flummoxing to me. In my mind, he's a player teams will trip over themselves to acquire and pay through the nose for the pleasure. In reality, his contract, which you are convinced is something that hinders his return, may increase the number of bidders and drive his value. Maybe... We shall see.

Your points 2&3 hit the nail on the head in my mind. I just think the Sabres organization needs to get its act together if they want JG to stick around. Otherwise, why wouldn’t he look around? Certainly one of, at least, Philadelphia, New Jersey, or one of the NY teams will come knocking.

Maybe I am undervaluing him, but I’ve been thoroughly disappointed in what we’ve seen since about March 2019. From his offensive drop off, inability to contribute in other areas of the game, and seemingly disinterest specifically at the beginning of the year have me wondering. And if I see that as a fan, what would you expect the view towards Johnny Ham&Cheese is from scouts and hockey executives? His smoke bomb (non) appearances in the playoffs are likely noticed throughout the league.

I don’t see him as a primary piece. He doesn’t touch enough areas of the game.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by TOfan

And if I see that as a fan, what would you expect the view towards Johnny Ham&Cheese is from scouts and hockey executives? His smoke bomb (non) appearances in the playoffs are likely noticed throughout the league.

I don’t see him as a primary piece. He doesn’t touch enough areas of the game.

Yup, I don't know how other GMs see him. I think there is a chance they see it as you do, but I think they may also not see the lows the same as a fan would. It's easy to say he is not a playoff performer when he has only been good in the playoffs 1/3 times, but the upside to it is pretty incredible if he finds that gear at the right time of year. It's cool that he gets another crack at it in a couple of weeks. I think he's gonna score a lot of goals.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Yup, I don't know how other GMs see him. I think there is a chance they see it as you do, but I think they may also not see the lows the same as a fan would. It's easy to say he is not a playoff performer when he has only been good in the playoffs 1/3 times, but the upside to it is pretty incredible if he finds that gear at the right time of year. It's cool that he gets another crack at it in a couple of weeks. I think he's gonna score a lot of goals.

Hope so

[The Cobra]

If Johnny has an excellent playoffs, his value could increase a fair bit. It could easily make up for a so-so regular season.

If he flounders, the opposite will occur.

This is an important playoff for the Flames for many reasons.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, to be fair (and you said it yourself), Monahan was saddled with Bennett. Pretty significant drop off there.

For sure, but the other issue is that we’re talking about #4 and #6 overall picks here. They both combine for almost $9M and the expectation is that they should be able to drive their own line together here. If they aren’t capable, then Treliving needs to find guys who can IMO.


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[Bonded]

Bennett will never drive a line. He is a bottom 6 energy guy now. I think Monahan could drive a line but he defers to Gaudreau because that is how they get the most points. Trading Gaudreau for futures without signing Hall would be a huge gamble though.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Take Gaudreau away from Monahan and I don't think he would score 50 points and even 40 might be the limit. He might still get 20 goals, but he would be a lot more like the 34 point player he was in his rookie year than the guy he's been since.

Hot take. Play Gaudreau on a line all buy himself and see what he generates. There's the thing, players are most successful when they are paired with a complimentary player. Monahan needs a setup man to be successful. Gaudreau needs a finisher. Split them up and both suffer. Pretty well the same way any player with the exception of those generational players will suffer.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Hot take. Play Gaudreau on a line all buy himself and see what he generates. There's the thing, players are most successful when they are paired with a complimentary player. Monahan needs a setup man to be successful. Gaudreau needs a finisher. Split them up and both suffer. Pretty well the same way any player with the exception of those generational players will suffer.

Curious about your thoughts on a Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm line.

[Enoch Root]

slow

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

slow

Yes, that’s clear.

But I wonder if they think/see the game well enough to overcome the lack of foot speed. Being able to control play and being a burner are two different things.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Curious about your thoughts on a Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm line.

Very different combination. I think Lindholm has to shift his game to be the setup guy. Might take some time, but I think they would click. Three talents of that level will score, they just need to understand their roles and develop some chemistry.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Curious about your thoughts on a Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm line.

I don't think it would work, both Tkachuk and Monahan score most of their goals from with a few feet of the crease. They both need someone to take shots for them to clean up the garbage and to get them the puck in tight.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If he's traded to Buffalo and they can't sign him to an extension, they can just trade him at the deadline as a rental and recoup a bunch of assets.

I think the mandate from the pegulas will be to get back to the playoffs ASAP, regardless of what it costs. If JG gets them to the playoffs and restores credibility with the fan base for only two years, they would be ok with that. If Johnny plays well with eichel and turns his attitude for the better, it would be a win for Buffalo.

If that’s the case, back up the brinks truck.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Hot take. Play Gaudreau on a line all buy himself and see what he generates. There's the thing, players are most successful when they are paired with a complimentary player. Monahan needs a setup man to be successful. Gaudreau needs a finisher. Split them up and both suffer. Pretty well the same way any player with the exception of those generational players will suffer.

I think Gaudreau has made guys into better goal scorers with his playmaking. Lindholm had 55 goals in the 317 games he played in his last 4 years in Carolina. He has 56 in the last 151 with many of those playing with Gaudreau. I also think Gaudreau is a decent goal scorer as well having hit 30 two times.

I think most any player who plays with Gaudreau will see an uptick in goals. I'm not as confident that guys who moved to playing with Monahan would see their assist totals go up the same way. He's a very good goal scorer, but at this point it's pretty unlikely he will do better than the 34 he put up in 18-19. That's not a career high for an elite goal scorer. Whereas 60 assists is an elite level number and Gaudreau has managed that twice.