If you only had to look at his on-ice performance and what he overcame, he would be a shoe-in. Unfortunately his social media reads likes a n awful nmash up of Rebel Media, Brett Wilson, and Rick Bell.
If he cleaned all of that nonsense up, I think they should be willing to start looking at retiring his number and HHOF.
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Yes, he does belong in the HOF in my opinion. He was a magician with the puck at times and had a storied career despite overcoming obstacles that most in the HOF could only have nightmares about.
He was my hero when I was younger and it was almost like I took it personally when he went haywire but as more and more information came out about him, I gained more and more respect for him.
He was an ####### at times, and has been again since his career ended. I'm not trying to give him a free pass, but his accomplishments on the ice speak for themselves, and with the benefit of context are even more impressive. Imagine what he could have been without a haunting past, addiction issues, etc.! i know you can't induct someone for what they could have been, but it's an interesting thought. I believe he deserves it without the imagination!
Get him in there.
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I think it's known, at least by some, that I'm not a Theo fan.
My view though is that he should be in the HHOF based on current standards. Like others, I believe the HHOF should have higher standards, but they've really "Federko'd" the crap out of it.
So on that basis he should be in.
But I still wouldn't retire his number. For me that's where some of the off-ice stuff comes into play.
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If you only had to look at his on-ice performance and what he overcame, he would be a shoe-in. Unfortunately his social media reads likes a n awful nmash up of Rebel Media, Brett Wilson, and Rick Bell.
If he cleaned all of that nonsense up, I think they should be willing to start looking at retiring his number and HHOF.
It's not the social media hall of fame. It's the hockey hall of fame.
Should be base purely on hockey accomplishments. People are entitled to their opinions, even if they differ from yours.
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He was the best player in the NHL for chunks of the late 90s. If the goal of society is to stop demonizing people with addictions and to stop the stigma of mental health, Theo should not be punished for that, rather rewarded for his skill and achievements at the game of hockey.
This pretty much sums it up for me. His accomplishments alone make him HOF worthy, but there is at least some reasonable debate to be had comparing him to some of the other statistically similar guys not in the HOF and who should get in first.
However, if the marks against him are ever based on his personal life, and they often are, then you can't reasonably include them without the context of what he went through. If you want to call those even and throw them out together, sure, but to me the importance of being a survivor of abuse and addiction weighs far heavier than not being a "great guy." You can't expect someone to go through a life like that and come out the other side clean. Many don't come out at all.
I'm just over the "he isn't/wasn't a great ambassador" angle. We all know why, and I think we can all agree that the reason is completely valid. He belongs in the HOF.
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Glenn Anderson is an interesting comparable too IMO. In the end somewhat similar scoring numbers (although Anderson overlapped a bit more of a higher scoring era). Anderson- of course- won many more cups, but never as the feature player on the team by any means
Anderson highest scoring finish I believe was 9th in league scoring, never a first or 2nd team allstar , and I don't believe ever received a vote (or at least significant votes) for an NHL award. (of course there are actually a lot of guys in the HOF who have similar CVs- I'm not meaning to throw Anderson specifically under the bus) but the similarities I think with Fleury is they are both guys that we saw alot of here in Alberta, both finished a little over 1000 points and a little under 500 goals, both had 'complicated' reputations
Fleury was twice top 5 in Hart trophy voting though.true he was never the best NHLer but at his peak I think its fair to say he was better than Anderson
Anderson was money in the playoffs. Every year. Almost a point a game. Only Gretzky, Messier and Kurri are ahead.
I'm in a complicated place with Theo. I liked him because he's short in stature like me, worked hard. I know he's been through stuff I will never be able to comprehend. But he's such a jackass. I wish he could get past himself. He gets in his own way.
Anderson was money in the playoffs. Every year. Almost a point a game. Only Gretzky, Messier and Kurri are ahead.
I'm in a complicated place with Theo. I liked him because he's short in stature like me, worked hard. I know he's been through stuff I will never be able to comprehend. But he's such a jackass. I wish he could get past himself. He gets in his own way.
Anderson- sure I get it . a great playoff resume. but the fact that the 3 guys ahead of him are his teammates sort of makes the point- they were a legendary high scoring group that rolled the NHL for a while . of them (depending where you place Fuhr and Coffey) he was the 5th or 6th most important piece
anyways Anderson was just below PPG in the regular season and playoffs, Fleury was just above PPG in both regular season and playoffs (he just played way few playoff games than Anderson- not trivial I concede)
One of the biggest problems I've ever had with the Flames as an organization, was not having him on the team during his 'comeback' attempt year.
One of my first hockey memories was my Dad buying us tickets to go and watch Guy Lafleur play in his swan song year in his one visit to the Saddledome. I didn't really know who Lafleur was at that point, but I remember the standing ovation that he received, and that it wasn't a sideshow. He could still play.
In my mind, all Theo needed to do was to prove that he could play at this level, which he did during the preseason. I get that the administration did not like his political and off-ice views, but by cutting him and making him an outsider, they ensured that those views wouldn't change. The only way to change someones perspective is to get near them, and give them the opportunity to see all sides of the issue.
Cutting Fleury did a disservice to the fans, the team, and to Theo himself.
A mellowed out Theo, who spent a year talking to Conroy (and probably putting up another 50 points), would likely have his number retired and in the Hall already.
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"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
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He was the best player in the NHL for chunks of the late 90s. If the goal of society is to stop demonizing people with addictions and to stop the stigma of mental health, Theo should not be punished for that, rather rewarded for his skill and achievements at the game of hockey.
Not to mention so much of Fleury's past was outside of his control. He grew up with parents with their own addiction issues, was actively discriminated against for having indigenous heritage, and then had to deal with Graham James.
Fleury has also devouted much of his post-career time to advocating for sexual abuse victims, helping others overcome addiction, advocating for indigenous communities, and even helping raise over a million dollars for Chron's Disease research.
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Lafleur's final year was with the 1990-91 Nordiques. All they were playing for was the chance to draft Lindros. I'm sure if the Flames had been in the same situation in 2009, there wouldn't have been any issue signing Fleury.
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
Fleury outplayed the fourth and most of the third lines in the preseason. It wasn't the best team in the league at that point, and he wasn't looking for top line duty.
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"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
They were planning on being one of the best teams in the league that year (and were for the first few months until Sutter finally got them playing "the right way").
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
Not a Fleury fan. His ego and mouth were bigger than his talent. He burned every bridge imaginable wherever he went. He was not a good role model and was a real prick of a person. But this is the Hockey Hall of Fame. It is about the game and the players who were a big part of it, for right or wrong. Because of Fleury's story he deserves to be in the HHOF. It is a story that needs to be told, retold, and remembered. Fleury should be in the HHOF.
That does not mean he deserves to have his number retired or honored by the team. To have that honor it requires that the individual was a good representative of the team and put the community above himself. It is about the "C" on the chest being bigger than the player, even when you are one of the top players in the game and the team's history. Ego is to be checked at the door. You must be a good representative of the Flames and of the City of Calgary. For all those reasons Fleury does not deserve to have his number retired or honored by the Calgary Flames. He was give two chances with by this team, a second when no one wanted anything to do with him, and he still shat all over the organization. That leads to a hard no because Fleury is not the type of person you want your players to emulate and follow their example. Therein lays the differentiation on the stances.
Yes to the HHOF, because of his story, but no to jersey retirement, because of his actions toward the team.
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Fleury outplayed the fourth and most of the third lines in the preseason. It wasn't the best team in the league at that point, and he wasn't looking for top line duty.
In my view he absolutely did not.
He was far too slow for the league.
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If you only had to look at his on-ice performance and what he overcame, he would be a shoe-in. Unfortunately his social media reads likes a n awful nmash up of Rebel Media, Brett Wilson, and Rick Bell.
If he cleaned all of that nonsense up, I think they should be willing to start looking at retiring his number and HHOF.
It's sad really. He should be in the HHOF and be a wonderful advocate for several important causes.
Sadly, he can't keep his ego in check long enough to avoid spouting off on irrelevant, pointless, or useless topics that are completely disconnected from hockey, abuse, or mental illness.
They interviewed him in the intermission against Predators this year on Joe Nieuwendyk bobblehead night.
In the 2-3 minute conversation, he couldn't avoid both insulting Nieuwendyk and talking about how much he hates Trudeau.
It was an easy test for him to show some composure and class which he quickly failed.
At this point, it's just silly that he's not in the HOF.
It's been years since I've seen or heard of anyone thinking otherwise. Is he extremely cocky? Yes. Does he do a lot of good work? A big yes.
And this isn't just Flames fans, basically everyone seems to agree that he should be in.
It's sad really. He should be in the HHOF and be a wonderful advocate for several important causes.
Sadly, he can't keep his ego in check long enough to avoid spouting off on irrelevant, pointless, or useless topics that are completely disconnected from hockey, abuse, or mental illness.
They interviewed him in the intermission against Predators this year on Joe Nieuwendyk bobblehead night.
In the 2-3 minute conversation, he couldn't avoid both insulting Nieuwendyk and talking about how much he hates Trudeau.
It was an easy test for him to show some composure and class which he quickly failed.
Yeah this is what is keeping him out in my eyes.
Him not being a brand ambassador or a good role model during his career can be excused due to his history and what he was dealing with. I agree with the perspective that his subsequent time as a voice for the abused speaking out against this time of treatment of sports makes him even more deserving.
However, he continues to take the worst possible route publicly at almost every opportunity. I was cheering for him to make the team in that come back, but my good feelings totally went out the window after hearing his reflections following getting cut. His twitter is ridiculous. Comments like these at public events make him look like a caricature.
He's a pr risk- I wouldn't want him near the hall unless I had a guarantee that he wouldnt say something stupid at the podium. No such guarantee is possible right now because, as always, Theo does what he wants when he feels like it.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Only four players with at least 450 goals had more penalty minutes: Pat Verbeek, Brendan Shanahan, Keith Tkachuk and Mark Messier. Sitting behind Fleury on this list is Gordie Howe (1,685).
Quote:
Only 15 players in NHL history have averaged at least one point per game in both the regular season (min. 1,000 games) and playoffs (min. 75 games). Fourteen are in the HHOF: Wayne Gretzky, Phil Esposito, Guy Lafleur, Sakic, Dale Hawerchuk, Bernie Federko, Denis Savard, Jari Kurri, Gil Perreault, Bobby Hull, Paul Coffey, Jean Beliveau, Howe and Messier.
He should be a no-brainer when you add in his international experience and titles.
