Flames upcoming free agent defensemen: Who stays, who goes?

[Snuffleupagus]

Brodie signed his $4.65m deal when he was a 40+ point dman, he hasn't sniffed those numbers in 4 years and his defensive game also suffered with big gaffs at the wrong time, he was solid after his "event" this year but still only on pace for 25 pts.

I'm not seeing a bunch of teams lining up to sign him with a raise. I think he'll have to take a cut in the range of 4 X $4m to stay with the flames

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He will almost certainly be the Flames selection for the expansion draft then. Guy is 36 still by far our best D and highly regarded across the league. I don’t think the organization puts themselves in a position where they must leave him unprotected. I think the only way that happens is of Kylington takes a massive step and forces their hand.

He's going to be 37 in October. Maybe he would get picked for his leadership but he would be 38 years old for the Seattle team in the 2021/22 on the last year of his contract. He did decline this season and it's likely he declines incrementally going forward and at his age it can be rapid. Also $6.7 million would be opened up to pursue a quality player in free agency. Hard to imagine the Flames protect him but anything is possible I suppose.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

The Knights took Engelland and it worked out very well for them. Let's not gift a new rival our captain.

They signed him as a UFA and paid him a million or so. Gio would eat a huge part of their cap.

I think you expose Gio, but he’s not taken.

[transplant99]

Am I alone in thinking that Hamonic will be the key UFA guy BT wants to keep over the rest of them... even for various reasons?

And Valimaki is going to supplant Hanifin? I suppose its possible but the guy has played all of 87 games in the last 3 years,{half of those in junior) and likely is going to need a good long stretch just to get anywhere close to game speed at an AHL level, nevermind in the NHL. I think he may be closer to being out of the game completely more than being an NHL regular. Hope Im wrong because he really did look fantastic before all this unfortunate injury stuff.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They signed him as a UFA and paid him a million or so. Gio would eat a huge part of their cap.

I think you expose Gio, but he’s not taken.

It's a risk. Who knows if he's taken? Their cap situation is unknown but 6.75 for 1 year is not a big deal for a new team most likely unless they pick a bunch of bad contracts

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Am I alone in thinking that Hamonic will be the key UFA guy BT wants to keep over the rest of them... even for various reasons?

And Valimaki is going to supplant Hanifin? I suppose its possible but the guy has played all of 87 games in the last 3 years,{half of those in junior) and likely is going to need a good long stretch just to get anywhere close to game speed at an AHL level, nevermind in the NHL. I think he may be closer to being out of the game completely more than being an NHL regular. Hope Im wrong because he really did look fantastic before all this unfortunate injury stuff.

I hope not. Signing hamonic would only be okay for one year at a time and we all know how brad loves those 3-5 year deals for older, average players. He's going to be brouwer value, but on D. 29 years old, declining, not great to begin with. Just sign Forbort instead if he has a hard on for that type of player. Just as good, younger, will come cheaper.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Gio would be a phenomenal player to have as their first captain. If he is still playing at a high level he is also a player they can flip at the deadline for a 1st + as he will be in the final year of his deal.

They want to set a culture and players like Gio will fit that mold.

A 38 y.o. defenseman on the final year of a contract that most felt was 2-3 years too long at the time it was signed is likely not the best value for Seattle to pick. And I doubt that 2022/23 Gio will be even remotely comparable to 2018/19 or even 2019/20 Gio. We're talking about the potential impact of a player 4 years after his peak season, at age 38+, following multiple injuries.

Frankly, at the time his contract was signed, most posters here would have loved to be able to get out of the final year of his contract for free.

Not that I want to lose Gio, but you have to protect the young, cost-controlled players that will be assets for years to come.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

A 38 y.o. defenseman on the final year of a contract that most felt was 2-3 years too long at the time it was signed is likely not the best value for Seattle to pick. And I doubt that 2022/23 Gio will be even remotely comparable to 2018/19 or even 2019/20 Gio. We're talking about the potential impact of a player 4 years after his peak season, at age 38+, following multiple injuries.

Frankly, at the time his contract was signed, most posters here would have loved to be able to get out of the final year of his contract for free.

Not that I want to lose Gio, but you have to protect the young, cost-controlled players that will be assets for years to come.

If not Gio who do they pick that's so great off our roster? Kylington? Bennett? Jankowski? Am I missing someone obvious?

They will take gio without hesitation I think if available. Nothing else worth taking imo. Maybe Ryan if he was still under contract but I'm really struggling to see who would be so much better for them.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

If not Gio who do they pick that's so great off our roster? Kylington? Bennett? Jankowski? Am I missing someone obvious?

They will take gio without hesitation I think if available. Nothing else worth taking imo. Maybe Ryan if he was still under contract but I'm really struggling to see who would be so much better for them.

Any of Kylington, Brodie (if re-signed, or otherwise, his replacement), or Hanifin. If the Flames protect Gio and Andersson, and if Valimaki needs to be protected, they will all be exposed. Even if Valimaki doesn't need to be protected (I'm still unclear on this, and it may depend on whether he plays in the playoffs), two of those are exposed. Would you prefer to lose Hanifin, who has more years of team control, at a lower cost, and is on the upward part of his development, instead of a player who will be declining?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

You can argue about whether they should protect Giordano, but if they don't, I have a hard time imagining a situation where he isn't picked and immediately becomes Seattle's captain, unless he craters very, very hard next season.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Any of Kylington, Brodie (if re-signed, or otherwise, his replacement), or Hanifin. If the Flames protect Gio and Andersson, and if Valimaki needs to be protected, they will all be exposed. Even if Valimaki doesn't need to be protected (I'm still unclear on this, and it may depend on whether he plays in the playoffs), two of those are exposed. Would you prefer to lose Hanifin, who has more years of team control, at a lower cost, and is on the upward part of his development, instead of a player who will be declining?

Trade Hanifin now for a young forward. He still has good value but isn't really developing. Trade him before he goes from 'potential' to 'he is what he is'. We could get caught holding onto a Bogosian level bust here in my view. Sign a Dman to a 1 year deal to replace. Re-sign him after the expansion draft if possible. I'm pretty sure Valimaki is exempt. Valimaki is the guy they are betting on in the top4 next year in my view, rightly or wrongly.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

A 38 y.o. defenseman on the final year of a contract that most felt was 2-3 years too long at the time it was signed is likely not the best value for Seattle to pick. And I doubt that 2022/23 Gio will be even remotely comparable to 2018/19 or even 2019/20 Gio. We're talking about the potential impact of a player 4 years after his peak season, at age 38+, following multiple injuries.

Frankly, at the time his contract was signed, most posters here would have loved to be able to get out of the final year of his contract for free.

Not that I want to lose Gio, but you have to protect the young, cost-controlled players that will be assets for years to come.

We are 4 years into that contract and it has been a complete steal the entire time. I don’t see Gio falling off a cliff here and do believe he would bring huge value to Seattle as a trade chip and/or culture setter.

I don’t think the Flames organization wants to lose Gio which is why I do not think we will see Valimaki at all unless it is crazy deep in the playoffs. I also do not think the Flames will acquire a Dman that forces them to protect that player and push Gio out of the obvious 3 of Hanifin, Anderson and himself.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You can argue about whether they should protect Giordano, but if they don't, I have a hard time imagining a situation where he isn't picked and immediately becomes Seattle's captain, unless he craters very, very hard next season.

It entirely depends on their philosophy as a management group.

If they are looking to be competitive right away, they would likely talk to the Flames about asking Gio if he planned on playing beyond that season, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to take him. If they get an indication he wouldn't want to uproot his family and move to a different country for any length of time, then they would likely make a deal with the Flames to take someone else for a 4th round pick or some lower tier prospect plus another guy off the existing roster the Flames find expendable.

One thing i highly doubt we see this time around are the amount of large side deals made for this player or that player not to be chosen however. I think way more teams are going to just go with their protected lists and let the chips fall where they may.

Vegas completely gamed a bunch of NHL GM's the last time around and more than a few hard lessons were learned league wide.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It entirely depends on their philosophy as a management group.



If they are looking to be competitive right away, they would likely talk to the Flames about asking Gio if he planned on playing beyond that season, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to take him. If they get an indication he wouldn't want to uproot his family and move to a different country for any length of time, then they would likely make a deal with the Flames to take someone else for a 4th round pick or some lower tier prospect plus another guy off the existing roster the Flames find expendable.



One thing i highly doubt we see this time around are the amount of large side deals made for this player or that player not to be chosen however. I think way more teams are going to just go with their protected lists and let the chips fall where they may.



Vegas completely gamed a bunch of NHL GM's the last time around and more than a few hard lessons were learned league wide.

Vegas picked pending UFA Neal and let him walk. No reason Seattle wouldn't do the same with Gio. The effects of having Gio would last well beyond the one year he was there. And who knows, maybe he likes Seattle and re-signs? If we let Gio go for nothing we might as well rebuild. I know he's not long for the NHL probably but I get a Chara vibe from him. Could see him being an effective top 4 into his 40s. He should retire a Flame and get his number retired. He is a top 5/10 flame of all time. So underrated even after winning this franchise's first norris. It would probably be his second Norris were it not for a torn bicep in 2015. Who knows maybe even another if Gulutzan isnt signed and a good coach like BB was instead.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Vegas picked pending UFA Neal and let him walk. No reason Seattle wouldn't do the same with Gio. The effects of having Gio would last well beyond the one year he was there. And who knows, maybe he likes Seattle and re-signs? If we let Gio go for nothing we might as well rebuild. I know he's not long for the NHL probably but I get a Chara vibe from him. Could see him being an effective top 4 into his 40s. He should retire a Flame and get his number retired. He is a top 5/10 flame of all time. So underrated even after winning this franchise's first norris. It would probably be his second Norris were it not for a torn bicep in 2015. Who knows maybe even another if Gulutzan isnt signed and a good coach like BB was instead.

They also tried to re-sign him.

As for the rest of it...OK.

Again, Seattle may come in with an entirely different philosophy as to how they want to build their club than Vegas did.

No one can be sure either way but taking 38 year olds isnt a common thing in expansion drafts....which Gio will be by the time Seattle ever plays a game.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Am I alone in thinking that Hamonic will be the key UFA guy BT wants to keep over the rest of them... even for various reasons?

He could be (sunk cost fallacy) but he shouldn't be as he's going to be asking for far more money and term than he's worth. He's incredibly average as he doesn't add a lot offensively and he's not a shutdown defenseman. Yes he's a warrior and probably good team guy but I can't remember a defenseman that turns over the puck trying to clear the zone like he does.

[Snapshot]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I like Forbort as a fill-in #4 / regular #5

I like Gustafsson to be utilized like a Stone as a 6/7

If they're willing to stay for reasonable price tags given those roles, I'd extend them.

Would like to keep Brodie over Hamonic. Will depend on players.

Signing Vatanen would be perfect. Krug is also enticing.

In the case of Brodie and Hamonic pricing themselves out of town, I'd like to see

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Vatanen
Forbort - Valimaki
Gustafsson, Kylington

Why would a player like Gustafsson, a season removed from a 60-point campaign, want to sign with a team where he won't be a top-6 defenseman? He isn't perfect defensively but that kind of point production on the back end would be highly coveted.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He could be (sunk cost fallacy) but he shouldn't be as he's going to be asking for far more money and term than he's worth. He's incredibly average as he doesn't add a lot offensively and he's not a shutdown defenseman. Yes he's a warrior and probably good team guy but I can't remember a defenseman that turns over the puck trying to clear the zone like he does.

I'm going to lose it if Hamonic is retained. He destroyed a year of Brodie's career and had a big part to play in Hanifin's regression. Get him off the team unless he's okay with the 6D spot and the money and term that should go along with it. Even in the 6th spot I'd rather they just try someone new.

I can't remember the last time the flames were rooked as badly as the Hamonic trade. The Regehr trade? I don't know but BT better not be wanting to extend him just because he overpaid badly initially, that would be beyond stupid, it would be a fireable offense as it would show BT has no plan. I don't like BT but I think, I hope, he knows better than to re-try things that have already failed spectacularly. I don't even trust Hamonic to shut down the JT Comphers of the world.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Snapshot

Why would a player like Gustafsson, a season removed from a 60-point campaign, want to sign with a team where he won't be a top-6 defenseman? He isn't perfect defensively but that kind of point production on the back end would be highly coveted.

He isnt just 'not perfect' defensively. He's a rover who doesn't even know what his end looks like. That 60 points was amazing but playing with a guy like Kane will do wonders for anyone. Just ask Chicago fans if they are upset they let a 60 point dman go for a 3rd. We should've kept the 3rd. He's never getting 40 again much less 60 imo

[Bingo]

keep in mind this is going to be a very strange UFA season.

Shortened window, a fear of contraction, an iffy season to follow. We may see players jumping at contracts with their current clubs for less term and less dollars just to get some certainty.