NHL projects salary cap to rise from $81.5mil to $84 mil-$88.2 mil

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Johnny is having a down year. 99 points to 69 points isn't ideal sure but Skinner has never even come all that close to 69.

Iginla had the following year-by-year declines in his career:

96 to 67
89 to 69
86 to 67

It happens to everyone.

It's also hugely dependent on the system deployed.

Johnny's dip is being mirrored by Tkachuk, Monahan, and Giordano. The lack of offense this year is system-related. The increase in dump and chase hockey, I imagine deployed as a tool to try and teach the core players how they'll have to find success during the playoffs, has crushed our scoring almost all season long.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Since1984

The 5th highest scoring team in the NHL this year and 9th last year is far from listless.

Oh my mistake

BEHOLD the offensive juggernaut Florida Panthers.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

What would you do with the extra cap space

What's not a move to prolong mediocrity in your book?

I would use it to keep our core components like Gaudreau and Tkachuk. We don't need another LW, we need a good coach. The roster itself is pretty good. If I am forking out big dollars for a player it is going to be for an area of need, like a #1 C.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Johnny is having a down year. 99 points to 69 points isn't ideal sure but Skinner has never even come all that close to 69.

Iginla had the following year-by-year declines in his career:

96 to 67
89 to 69
86 to 67

It happens to everyone.

Did Iginla ever stop competing for pucks? Because I don't remember that from his career.

This is only a "down year" for Johnny if he can actually ever rebound.

How do we know that "down year" is more likely than "beginning of a career downhill slide"? If Johnny isn't doing the only things that make him successful then he may never rebound. He's scared to compete for pucks. He's passing regularly into the opponents skates instead of to his teammates. He's not beating defensemen as regularly as he did in the past.

The "down year" narrative is a comforting one. It will only be the truth if Johnny actually rebounds. I'm not sure Treliving will give him the chance with us.

This was a big prove it year for Johnny after how he and Monahan played in the playoffs. IMO he's failed the test completely. I think his play will force Treliving to move him. You can't build around a player who is scared to compete in puck battles.

Time will tell.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Did Iginla ever stop competing for pucks? Because I don't remember that from his career.

This is only a "down year" for Johnny if he can actually ever rebound.

How do we know that "down year" is more likely than "beginning of a career downhill slide"? If Johnny isn't doing the only things that make him successful then he may never rebound. He's scared to compete for pucks. He's passing regularly into the opponents skates instead of to his teammates. He's not beating defensemen as regularly as he did in the past.

The "down year" narrative is a comforting one. It will only be the truth if Johnny actually rebounds. I'm not sure Treliving will give him the chance with us.

This was a big prove it year for Johnny after how he and Monahan played in the playoffs. IMO he's failed the test completely. I think his play will force Treliving to move him. You can't build around a player who is scared to compete in puck battles.

Time will tell.

You do realize that in the second half of the year he has basically been a point per game player right? With his #1C doing jack squat? Pretty sure Gaudreau will at worst be a 80-100 point player for years to come with good linemates and an actual hockey system in place with a good coach.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hoffman is also a UFA

Going at virtually the same P/G clip as Gaudreau and Tkachuk this season on that listless Panthers team.

I'd be willing to throw 8-9 at either guy (probably less for Hoffman), but if they're set on 10+, if I'm any GM I'd probably be out.

If Hoffman wants anything close to 8-9 million you laugh and hang up the phone.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize that in the second half of the year he has basically been a point per game player right? With his #1C doing jack squat? Pretty sure Gaudreau will at worst be a 80-100 point player for years to come with good linemates and an actual hockey system in place with a good coach.

18 pts over the last 17 games 4 goals and 14 assists.

Over the last part of that he has been back with Monahan 8 goals 10 pts in the last 17 and Lindholm 8 goals 17 pts in the last 17 games .

His line mates put up 16 goals in the last 17 games. 40 goals / year pace.


You are going to get some assists when playing on a line with not 1 but 2 40 goal scorers.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

For fun last season, I blamed the catastrophic start to the Blue's season squarely on the newly acquired Ryan O'Reilly and nicknamed him "The Herald of Suck", citing him as the cause of all the bad voodoo of inexplicable suck surrounding the Avalanche and Sabres and now Blues teams he was on.

Then he won a Cup.

Moral is don't #### with the hockey gods

Kessel won two Cups and he was labeled a loser before that as well.

I think Taylor Hall is the type of player that will skate through a brick wall during the playoffs in order to win. He might not be Selke, but he will give maximum effort.

Anyway, why wouldn't he sign in Colorado this offseason?

That's what I would do.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize that in the second half of the year he has basically been a point per game player right? With his #1C doing jack squat? Pretty sure Gaudreau will at worst be a 80-100 point player for years to come with good linemates and an actual hockey system in place with a good coach.

His points flatter his play. Now we're blaming the coach for his bad year?

Gaudreau looks a lot better with Lindholm because Lindholm makes the players around him better. Gaudreau for the first half of the year made the players around him worse.

As for Monahan, I've been less disappointed in his play than Gaudreau's. You see it as Monahan doing nothing. I see Gaudreau having dragged down Monahan for most of this year. Monahan is more dependant on Gaudreau playing well than the reverse IMO.

Anyways, agree to disagree. Gaudreau has looked a bit better lately but still to me doesn't look like a guy you can build around. Just not enough compete, still makes really stupid careless plays with the puck on the regular.

Time will tell.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

His points flatter his play. Now we're blaming the coach for his bad year?

Gaudreau looks a lot better with Lindholm because Lindholm makes the players around him better. Gaudreau for the first half of the year made the players around him worse.

As for Monahan, I've been less disappointed in his play than Gaudreau's. You see it as Monahan doing nothing. I see Gaudreau having dragged down Monahan for most of this year. Monahan is more dependant on Gaudreau playing well than the reverse IMO.

Anyways, agree to disagree. Gaudreau has looked a bit better lately but still to me doesn't look like a guy you can build around. Just not enough compete, still makes really stupid careless plays with the puck on the regular.

Time will tell.

Boomer and Stajan were talking about this this morning. He has the puck more than anyone, so gives it up more than anyone. Some fans really focus on this. Stajan, in particular, didn't understand this focus.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think Taylor Hall is the type of player that will skate through a brick wall during the playoffs in order to win. He might not be Selke, but he will give maximum effort.

Anyway, why wouldn't he sign in Colorado this offseason?

That's what I would do.

Because with all their big-ticket contract renewals coming up, the Avs won't be able to give Hall the term he wants. They'll need to find $8+ mil for Makar in 2021 and $7 mil for Landeskog, then $10+ mil for MacKinnon in 2023. That's to go with the $9 mil they're paying Rantanen. Hall was in play for Colorado earlier this season as a rental, but they can't fit him into their long-term plans.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Rtown

Man. Y’all gonna lose your #### when Tre wizards Hall to a 7x7.75 contract. (New Chuckie cap)

Yes but not for the right reasons.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Because with all their big-ticket contract renewals coming up, the Avs won't be able to give Hall the term he wants. They'll need to find $8+ mil for Makar in 2021 and $7 mil for Landeskog, then $10+ mil for MacKinnon in 2023. That's to go with the $9 mil they're paying Rantanen. Hall was in play for Colorado earlier this season as a rental, but they can't fit him into their long-term plans.

2023 is a long way away. Looking at upwards of seven million dollars to the cap by then maybe.

[Sylvanfan]

Well Andrew Mangiapane will be happy to hear this. He shouldn't have to settle for being ground down to a low salary at the last minute this year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

18 pts over the last 17 games 4 goals and 14 assists.

Over the last part of that he has been back with Monahan 8 goals 10 pts in the last 17 and Lindholm 8 goals 17 pts in the last 17 games .

His line mates put up 16 goals in the last 17 games. 40 goals / year pace.


You are going to get some assists when playing on a line with not 1 but 2 40 goal scorers.

And why are his linemates both potting lots of goals?

It's almost like there is an inter-connected relationship between goal scorers and playmakers.

[powderjunkie]

I'm not trying to argue that Skinner's deal is not completely insane, but I can mostly understand it from BUF's standpoint. In the 3 years before Skinner signed his contract, he scored 101 goals...14th most in the league (55th in pts). No surprising guys ahead of him, except Anders Lee, who scored 1 more goal (10 fewer pts) in 2 more gp. Lee was due for a contract at the same time and signed a 7x7 (Full NTC until last 2 years where it's 15 team; compared to Skinner's full NMC). Back it up to the 4 years before signing contract and Skinner has 10th most goals.

Lee was also 2 yrs older, was coming off a bit of a down season (relative to the prior 2), and only had one other 25 goal season, and; Skinner had three (and was almost always at a 25 goal pace in his injury seasons), and was coming off a good season.

IMO BUF had to pay three 'taxes': bad location, bad team, and desperation (as we now can speculate to pacify Eichel). Obviously there is no way to quantify these as each situation is unique, but I would argue that these ‘taxes’ accumulate exponentially, not arithmetically.

One could argue that SJ paid a 'desperation tax' with E Kane (obviously good location and was seen as a good team, but they were desperate to make their aging core payoff). E Kane ranked 38th in goals and 111th in pts in the 3 yrs before he signed his 7x7 contract (essentially same age as Skinner at signing, both turned 27 in their signing off-season – Hall will turn 29 before he plays 20 games on his contract).


There are a lot of arguments to mitigate this, especially looking at things on a per game basis instead of total (though when signing a player to a 6+ yr deal, injury history is damn concerning). None of this is to say that the Skinner contract isn’t awful…again, it is. But, Buffalo’s alternative was to………………..pray? I can understand why they did it.

One of the worst thing we do as armchair GMs is hold up singular examples as comparables. Most acknowledge that Hall is a tier below guys like Panarin or Stone. Most would also argue that he is better than guys like Skinner, Lee, or E Kane (Pacioretty, JVR). IMO there are enough question marks with Hall that he should be closer to the latter group than the former from a contract valuation standpoint (Duchene might be the closest to Hall, but that’s a singular example with many significant differences). It really boils down to how many teams are seriously interested, and what kind of ‘taxes’ do they have to pay?

The most likely suitors for Hall seem to be ARI, CGY, and perhaps DAL or EDM…I think somebody will probably blow their brains out and sign a silly deal…I hope it's not us.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Because with all their big-ticket contract renewals coming up, the Avs won't be able to give Hall the term he wants. They'll need to find $8+ mil for Makar in 2021 and $7 mil for Landeskog, then $10+ mil for MacKinnon in 2023. That's to go with the $9 mil they're paying Rantanen. Hall was in play for Colorado earlier this season as a rental, but they can't fit him into their long-term plans.

Hall has made it pretty clear that he wants to go to a contender.

I think he will sacrifice cap hit or term to make it happen.

[powderjunkie]

I sorta kinda defended the Skinner contract and it broke CalgaryPuck last night.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I would use it to keep our core components like Gaudreau and Tkachuk. We don't need another LW, we need a good coach. The roster itself is pretty good. If I am forking out big dollars for a player it is going to be for an area of need, like a #1 C.

That’s the thing. You can just exchange dollars for a #1 Center unless you draft one. The odds of another Tavares hitting the market (and actually willing to sign in Calgary) are slim to none. Rumor is Hall has Calgary on his list. Have to take elite talent when you can.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hall - Monahan - Gaudreau
(red flag is defensive side of the game.. hence why Lindholm is suited here)
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
(that line is magic, hard to split it)
Dube - Ryan - Lindholm
(elevates your third line, still give Lindy top PP minutes)

Man these are hard lines to draw up.

I think you stick with pairs.

Gaudreau - Monahan- x
Tkachuk - Backlund - x
Hall - Lindholm - x
Lucic - Ryan - x

For guys who could fit in on the right we have:

Mangiapane, Dube, Bennett, Jankowski.

So, we plug in Mangiapane with Backlund and Tkachuk.

Dube goes on the line with Ryan and Lucic.

Then you trade Sam Bennett for Josh Anderson.

Jankowski and Hanafin in a deal for Kapanen or Andreas Johnsson and a pick/prospect.

Final forward lines:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Anderson
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Hall - Lindholm - Kapanen/Johnsson
Lucic - Ryan - Dube