[PGT] EAT #### BRAD MARCHAND - Flames WIN!

[Rando]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I feel like the Cassie hate borders on misogyny

Examples?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's a pretty serious accusation based on nothing.
I don't like her because I don't think she's good at her job.
I can tell you exactly why:
- She gets stuff wrong
- She doesn't break down plays to tell me something I don't already know. Meaning - she just repeats what is showing on the screen, instead of offering new information or deeper understanding
- She gets stuck on a narrative that she thinks is the story of the game, often what she has tee'd up in the pre-game, regardless of if it actually is a story of the game or not.

There are valid reasons not to enjoy her as a commentator and saying that that it is misogyny is offensive and frankly is as bad as misogyny itself.

I have worked with female broadcasters, including in sports. I love that women are getting more opportunities, as they should.

But that doesn't mean they are above criticism when they aren't doing a good job.

I will say that Hrudey is almost same level bad as she is and sometimes he's worse. He doesn't face nearly the amount of criticism despite the fact he's been doing this much longer than Campbell and still isn't good at it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Rando

Examples?

I've definitely seen people here that blame "political correctness" as the reason Campbell is on the air. i.e. that she's only on the air because she is a woman and they are filling a gender equality quota.

Personally I think Campbell is a downgrade on Hrudy, but he sets the bar pretty high so being worse than him isn't being worse than average. I don't mind Cassie although she definitely ruined the call on Backlund's goal last night considering I never thought the puck hit a Flames player on the bench (just based on its trajectory you could tell it bounced off the dasher). Great goal, bad call. I'd like to see the Bruins' call.

I would call Cassie Campbell an average color commentator. If we have criticisms, which Jiri did outline, I think we should forward those to her constructively as I'm sure she would like to improve.

[AC]

I agree that Kelly and Cassie are pretty similar.

They both have a similar level of insight being former players but generally don't add a lot. However I think Cassie gets criticized more because of her monotone delivery, which is unfortunate because it's not something she can really control.

Though I think Rick and Kelly have great chemistry, which makes them a good pair. You can hear the difference when Jason York or other replacements step in as well as they don't have the same jokey and fun chemistry Rick and Kelly have.

[TheScorpion]

If Kylington isn't going to play (which I don't entirely agree with), could the Flames not just have sent him down for more playing time and then kept Davidson around as NHL depth?

[Erick Estrada]

DeBrusk is the best overall color guy in Alberta because he's likeable and provides some insight. Remenda also provides decent insight gut his homerism is so off the charts that he can't be taken seriously. Cassie and Kelly both offer little insight. The odd time Hrudey picks up on something but it's sandwiched between homerism and bad humor.

[UnitedFlames]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I feel like people aren't allowed to criticize her because of the threat of being labeled a misogynist.

- She has a monotone delivery.
- She takes a long time to say what she's trying to say.
- She mansplains replays.

None of these things have anything to do with her being a woman. There are a lot of guys that do these same things too, and I also (coincidence?) don't like them too.

yup. "No question about it."

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I will say that Hrudey is almost same level bad as she is and sometimes he's worse. He doesn't face nearly the amount of criticism despite the fact he's been doing this much longer than Campbell and still isn't good at it.

Why I don't complain about Hrudey:

- His voice isn't monotone.
- He often adds insight on a play from the point of view of the goalie, which may be basic info to some people, but is interesting to me.
- He and Ball have outstanding chemistry. I get the sense these guys are good friends who hang out together, and the way they talk to each other is very entertaining.

There are two ways to be a good colour-commentator:

- Be insightful
- Be entertaining

I feel that Hrudey is almost always entertaining, and his goalie point of view allows him more flexibility with the "be insightful" part.

[btimbit]

I don't love Cassie's work but she's a hell of a lot better to listen too than Galley, Millen, York, Remenda or Garrett. For a colour commentator, she's really only behind Hrudey and DeBrusk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How many hockey color guys (or ladies) tell you something you don’t already know? It is a lost art. Compare many of them to guys like Romo in the NFL who are incredible.

You know who rarely offers insight into tactics and the like? Loubardias. I used to like him a lot but I feel like he’s become a caricature who can’t stop talking about putting in the work and structure.

I really don’t mind Cassie because I just don’t think she’s much different than the rest.

I agree with this, and it is the reason why I just don't even notice much of the colour on broadcasts anymore (unless I am laughing at how hilariously one-sided Drew Remenda is on Oilers telecasts). But this also begs the question:

Who's good at it?

I am not the one to answer that question since—like I said—I don't pay much attention at the best of times. I think Craig Simpson is probably fairly good, and I have always liked Gary Galley. Is there anyone else?

I will say that while I don't think there are any especially good colour commentators in hockey, Cassie Campbell is in the end not much worse than almost everyone.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That or the kid is sleeping through the night now

I definitely feel like this played into Backlund looking like a shell of himself.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

I agree that Kelly and Cassie are pretty similar.

They both have a similar level of insight being former players but generally don't add a lot. However I think Cassie gets criticized more because of her monotone delivery, which is unfortunate because it's not something she can really control.

Though I think Rick and Kelly have great chemistry, which makes them a good pair. You can hear the difference when Jason York or other replacements step in as well as they don't have the same jokey and fun chemistry Rick and Kelly have.

I think being married to the AGM also makes her job more difficult.

Needs to be impartial, needs to have a handle on what she can and cannot say, can't appear too overly critical.

Last night Rick mentioned Forberts injury history and she started talking and then had to catch herself because she started down a road of what kind of due diligence the flames had done on that injury.

iMO, neither Kelly or Cassie are 'good', but they are blowing the doors off what we had previously

It's hard for me to single out any one member of that team has being objectionably bad when the whole presentation is awful. Ball and Leslie are real standouts for bring good, but the rest of the game coverage is woeful.

If the picture quality is bad and we can't even get a decent replay, I guess I don't care about the in game colour commentary that I'm not really listening to anyway?

Better than Simmer is not a high bar, but at least we have moved on from that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Why I don't complain about Hrudey:

- His voice isn't monotone.
- He often adds insight on a play from the point of view of the goalie, which may be basic info to some people, but is interesting to me.
- He and Ball have outstanding chemistry. I get the sense these guys are good friends who hang out together, and the way they talk to each other is very entertaining.

There are two ways to be a good colour-commentator:

- Be insightful
- Be entertaining

I feel that Hrudey is almost always entertaining, and his goalie point of view allows him more flexibility with the "be insightful" part.

I don't really complain about any of them including Cassie. The color person has little bearing on my enjoyment of watching a game. It's the reason I posted because I see a lot of people here complain about her and I don't understand why it's a big deal. Trust me Oilers fans think Hrudey is terrible just like we think Remenda is and both fan bases are correct here but why does it really matter? We all saw the Flames win a big game in Boston last night. This is really all we should be discussing as I don't understand the fixation with Cassie as she has no bearing on the outcome of the game and the outcome of the game ultimately determines the enjoyment we get out of watching our favorite team play.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree with this, and it is the reason why I just don't even notice much of the colour on broadcasts anymore (unless I am laughing at how hilariously one-sided Drew Remenda is on Oilers telecasts). But this also begs the question:

Who's good at it?

Kris Versteeg

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't really complain about any of them including Cassie. The color person has little bearing on my enjoyment of watching a game. It's the reason I posted because I see a lot of people here complain about her and I don't understand why it's a big deal. Trust me Oilers fans think Hrudey is terrible just like we think Remenda is and both fan bases are correct here but why does it really matter? We all saw the Flames win a big game in Boston last night. This is really all we should be discussing as I don't understand the fixation with Cassie as she has no bearing on the outcome of the game and the outcome of the game ultimately determines the enjoyment we get out of watching our favorite team play.

To be fair, the only times I really complain about her is when we're getting our asses kicked. It's like when we're winning and I'm having fun watching the game, I'm not too worried about it, but when we're losing and/or the game itself sucks, that's when I rely on the commentators to keep me into it... and then it's like... dammit, not only does the game suck, but now I gotta listen to a robot voice mansplain to me about how a puck went into the net because someone hit it really hard with a hockey stick?

[Rando]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Kris Versteeg

Has Versteg done in the booth colour analysis? He's been on panels, told some stories, etc but it's a major step up to be in the both for 60 minutes of play a night.

Actually liked Campbell when he had a smaller role on CBC.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think being married to the AGM also makes her job more difficult.

Needs to be impartial, needs to have a handle on what she can and cannot say, can't appear too overly critical.

Last night Rick mentioned Forberts injury history and she started talking and then had to catch herself because she started down a road of what kind of due diligence the flames had done on that injury.

iMO, neither Kelly or Cassie are 'good', but they are blowing the doors off what we had previously

It's hard for me to single out any one member of that team has being objectionably bad when the whole presentation is awful. Ball and Leslie are real standouts for bring good, but the rest of the game coverage is woeful.

If the picture quality is bad and we can't even get a decent replay, I guess I don't care about the in game colour commentary that I'm not really listening to anyway?

Better than Simmer is not a high bar, but at least we have moved on from that.

Is Simmer the one where every single sentence sounds like a question? Jesus that guy is like nails on a chalkboard for me. He could literally be telling me I just won the lottery and I'd still want him to stfu lol.

[djsFlames]

Charlie Simmer was worse than Cassie, there's no question.

He made me hate Flames broadcasts for a while, particularly at the tail end when it was like he was phoning it in completely, going back to the same well of 3-4 responses. They could've just make a soundboard of things he usually says and play the appropriate one for the play at hand and he wouldn't even have to be in attendance.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I will say that Hrudey is almost same level bad as she is and sometimes he's worse. He doesn't face nearly the amount of criticism despite the fact he's been doing this much longer than Campbell and still isn't good at it.

Drives me nuts how he constantly laughs at all his own jokes. Yuk, yuk, yuk.

[Rando]

Charlie was the wurst.

Ron Kerr and Charlie Summer. Good God.