NDP calls for ban on ATM fees

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by worth

Most of the time the $3 ones are independent cash machines and not banks.

And I really don't have a problem with the "Joe's cash machine" in the bar or the 7-11. My biggest issue is the major bank machines who charge the same amount as those little ones.

The only way the owner of the Joe's machine has to make money is with a service charge. However when I use a CIBC machine to take money out of my TD account, they also charge the same fee. My back then tacks on the "other bank fee" which; when it was brought in, was explained that it covers the cost of using and maintaining the Interac network. CIBC pays for that machine to be there as a service to their own customers. An additional fee was set up for me to use it, but now we are getting dinged twice. To me that is like me making a phone call to Winnipeg, but getting billed from both MTS and Telus to make the call.

Maybe an idea would be to only allow 1 fee per transaction. That way if people see that it's $4, they might think twice.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Open up a President's Choice account. No dings from other banking institutions. You still get them from the bar machines though.

I've been mulling over that one for a while myself. Do they have online banking, if so, what's it like?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I've been mulling over that one for a while myself. Do they have online banking, if so, what's it like?

I think so. I don't actually have one, but my girlfriend does. I will ask her later.

[mykalberta]

Ok so what is the debate about, fees at your own ABM or competitors. I am not getting why people are upset when they go to a different banks ATM and are charged. Thats what you get for choosing that bank. People who use Presidents Choice bank know that there may not be that many choices around for Autmated Banking and deal with the fees.

What is the problem, you use a bank machine of a bank you dont use, what should they let people use them for free.

In the US, is there a law about this or what, it seems strange that someone if pokonos Montana who uses the local bank would get free use of AmeriBank ATM in Florida - something seems screwy there?

MYK

[oddsrule]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I've been mulling over that one for a while myself. Do they have online banking, if so, what's it like?

Full everything, free everything as long as its a CIBC machine or one of the PC ones in a superstore. You get dinged for any 3rd party machine, but there are tons of CIBC ones out there. Only problem is if you deal with a lot of non-electronic deposits and don't have great credit as your deposits will be held for clearing no matter what.

Used to work for BMO and recommended these guys all the time.

[Bobblehead]

I'm a bit of an old-timer, but I remember when ATMs were rare. The primary reason they existed was to provide service when the banks were closed. There were no fees at that time. (Anyone recall the Canada Trust "Johnny Cash" machine commercials with Johnny Cash singing "I Walk The Line"?)
Then banks began to charge fees when you actually used a teller. The justification was they needed to pay the employees. But if you used an ATM there were no charges.
Then there were ATM charges. (now called a "convenience fee")
Then there were additional charges if you used an ATM supplied by a private vendor.
Then the banks started their own "private" lines with associated ATM fees.
Then using any ATM other than you Bank's ATMs is a fee.
And I haven't even factored in "no fees with a minimum balance".

Originally Posted by RedHot25

The story is updated now, with the banks' view of things....

But the CBA issued a statement in response to Layton's announcement, saying the banks charge fees to help pay to maintain their ABM networks. Raymond J. Protti, president and CEO of the CBA, said in a release banks charge consumers a convenience fee when using a competitor's account to be fair to their own customers.
"It's like saying to clients of a gym, 'we're going to let customers of other gyms in to use the weight room. We're not going to charge them, and you'll be subsidizing their use of it,' " Protti said.

<begin off topic rant>Maintenance of the network is the same as mopping the floors of the local branch - they are the costs of doing business. When businesses give me my bill with all their specific costs itemized (utility bills primarily) it is stupid. I don't care what their different fixed costs vs variable costs are; it all comes to one total for me and I don't care if the price/fee is network maintenance or your year-end bonus, I just know I need to work to pay that bill if I want that service. <end off topic rant>

And the gym membership is a stupid analogy for a few reasons. I'm not going to be inconvenienced is someone else somewhere from another bank is using a machine on my bank's network. If my gym is constantly busy and I can't use the equipment, I'll switch gyms. My original gym better get more equipment (and if they are that busy then they can afford it).

I HATE bank fees as well, but as long as there are services (such as PC banking) that offer no fee banking, I don't think the gov't should be regulating this.

[Slava]

I still think the "try to stick to your own bank" argument is silly. At my bank (and most of them) I pay a charge each month for unlimited transactions. If I'm paying this, and paying increasing fees for other transactions then what exactly does that monthly fee cover? I'm sure that the banks can run their systems based on that monthly fee that everyone pays...

[redforever]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I hate -- HATE -- the fees for using ATMs, but this is really none of the government's business. Banks are free to charge any exhorbitant fees they want, and consumers are free to choose not to pay them. If you don't want to get dinged with the fee, use your own bank's machines. It's not like you have to pay $4.00 at one of those expensive ATMs they have in bars and such; plan ahead and stop at your own bank for cash if you're going out for a night of drinking.

AMEN, people should take responsibility for their own finances. Same thing with getting dinged $35.00 for insufficient funds. Like know how much money is in your account and just dont write a check if your balance is gonna put you in the red, take some responsibility. Today's world is almost too convenient and you better get used to paying for convenience. If you dont want to pay for that convenience, then do the homework and take out your money where your own bank machines are. From what I have seen, the worst offenders are the teenage crowd. I have seen them pay for a package of gum with their debit card or credit card and then get dinged more in fees than the gum was worth.

I think ATM machines in foreign countries are a different matter. There I think the convenience is worth it. I would rather pay a fee internationally than be walking about with all my money in traveller's cheques or worse yet with a huge wad of cash. And we just got back from Mexico, from a touristy place, never paid more than $5 for the ATM service charge, basically about the same as in Canada.

And most financial institutions have a package where you just pay a charge up front every month and most things are then covered. We pay $12 per month at the Royal, all cheques written are included, internet banking, fees for travellers cheques, you get a safety deposit box, forget what all, but for us it is worth it rather than getting dinged for every little transaction. And to me it is worth more to pay it up front and let me do the rest cause I hate wasting my time in lineups. So look into what your bank offers. If you are a long time customer, have been a good customer, you should have no trouble with your banks.

So leave the government out of it. They have a much higher percentage of screwing things up than you do, although some people should get help in managing their money. And sadly for them, no matter if govt changes regulations for banking or not, those people will still struggle managing their money.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I've been mulling over that one for a while myself. Do they have online banking, if so, what's it like?

Yes they do... I've heard it can be difficult getting good customer services w/ PC Financial, but you make up for it in the lack of fees. Guess it depends on what you're prioritizing.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I HATE bank fees as well, but as long as there are services (such as PC banking) that offer no fee banking, I don't think the gov't should be regulating this.

The thing with PC- they are picky about who they allow as customers. I was turned down when they started up. This was about 10 years ago, so it may have changed. But they flat out refused to give me an account. The next day I went into a Scotia Bank, opened an account, but then had a reasonable limit placed on my ATM withdrawls for the first little while.

[Log]

Originally Posted by RW99

Until we say something with our wallets, banks will do what they want. Every major bank in Canada is making millions/billions. Yes, I'm sure a fair bit of it is from investment. But they've also reduced hours, forced more ppl to use machines/phone/internet, increased fees to do the simplest of things, etc.

Charging a $35.00 NSF fee is a nice one too.

I don't see a problem with this one..... If you have bad enough money management and write a bunch of rubber cheques, then so be it! Tisk Tisk. However if you write a bad cheque once and have a decent reason for it going bad, the bank I'm sure will waive those fees once.... if you ask them to.

[JimmytheT]

Originally Posted by RW99

Until we say something with our wallets, banks will do what they want. Every major bank in Canada is making millions/billions. Yes, I'm sure a fair bit of it is from investment. But they've also reduced hours, forced more ppl to use machines/phone/internet, increased fees to do the simplest of things, etc.

Charging a $35.00 NSF fee is a nice one too.

HA, this one makes me laugh. Please don't complain about a fee for doing something that is ILLEGAL.
How about not writing cheques for money you do not have or have the money available in your account for a schedule automatic payment?
NSF fees are high to act as an incentive not write NSF cheques etc.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by fotze

Also, when a bank machine is not working and eats your card, why doesn't the bank give you an inconvienience fee. Also, why is there braille on bank machines?

So blind people can take out their money.

What I'd like to know is why there is braille on drive thru bank machines.

[CaramonLS]

Try using an ATM at a casino in Vegas.

Up front charge of 5$ + 2% of whatever you withdraw.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I hate to say it, but Layton has a bit of a point.

To me, bank fees are almost like usury, and since banking is somewhat protected in Canada, perhaps its something to look into.

Personally, I try to stick to my bank when possible, but sometimes that's not possible... I guess the argument is if its part of the "interac family" there shouldn't be a fee for using it.

There is a fee for using Interac as well. The difference is that most stores and resteraunts absorb it and pass it onto the customers as part of the price.

Banks do the same as well. As part of my account type at Scotiabank, I do not pay their fees for using a non-Scotiabank ATM. I do, however, pay the fee that is charged by the bank that does own the ATM. That is why I tend to avoid using such machines.

Incidentally, the 2400% comment is just ridiculously weak. This cannot be compared to an interest charge becuase it is not a loan. It is a service fee. Makes about as much sense as trying to convert the cost of a haircut into an interest charge would.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by fotze

He already admitted that it was a stretch, it was obviously a little lighthearted, why are you guys going so ridiculously overboard about it.

Because it is a patently false statement designed to skew emotions in a certain direction?

[ericschand]

Haven't we been here before?

Over 20+ years ago?

If I recall, banks were charging fees for *everything*. Withdrawl, deposit,
you name it.

The catalyst came when an elderly lady went into a bank to get change
for $20, so she could go on the bus or something. The service fee charged
was $10. She got $10 back from her $20.

In the ensuing uproar, the government stepped in and said that bank
fees need to be regulated. The banks quickly, very quickly, changed
their fees, such that banking became almost free everywhere.

Now we're back to needing the lady to try to get change again...

ers

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by fotze

Hmm, is that true? I don't remember that.

I just phoned my father, who is the oldest person I know, and asked
him. He said he recalls it, but can't remember what the change was for.
He also said it was in the early 1980's.

ers

[FlamesAddiction]

I wonder if an NDP government would consider a nationalized public bank. Not to necessarily make all banking nationalized (that would never fly), but to open a federal "credit union" that people could become members of. That way, they could charge no service fees and make a killing on interest like private banks do. Private banks could keep charging fees if they wanted, although they would probably have to stop because of the new option.

[Log]

Originally Posted by fotze

Why not make it a $4000 fee then, I bet a lot less people would do it. It is sort of like a video game, step in the poison patch and you will be docked 2 hitpoints per minute.

Agreed, why not give jail time for that fact (for repeat offenders).....