NDP calls for ban on ATM fees

[RedHot25]

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/200...5/ndp-atm.html

The party has proposed changes to banking laws that would eliminate fees for using automated teller machines (ATMs), also known as automated banking machines, or ABMs.

...

Last December, NDP finance critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis in question period pressed Finance Minister Jim Flaherty to legislate the end of competitor automated banking machine fees. She noted that banks in other countries, including the U.K. and U.S., do not charge additional fees when a consumer uses a competitor's ABM.

I guess the question is then: why are we basically the only ones that get dinged? And if this is the case, anybody think that there is any realistic chance of getting this changed?

[ken0042]

Because so many people are apathetic when it come to bank fees. I'm pretty anal about using my own bank, but most people I know are not. If people would stop using "just any" machine, then the fees would go down until the price was fair.

I didn't mind paying $1 to use another machine. Now that it's upwards of $4 per withdrawl, that is a significant amount. On a $60 withdrawl, that works out to 2400% interest. (if you want to look at it that way)

[FlamesAddiction]

I heard that in some touristy places in Mexico, you can dinged $10.00 at an ABM.

[RW99]

Until we say something with our wallets, banks will do what they want. Every major bank in Canada is making millions/billions. Yes, I'm sure a fair bit of it is from investment. But they've also reduced hours, forced more ppl to use machines/phone/internet, increased fees to do the simplest of things, etc.

Charging a $35.00 NSF fee is a nice one too.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Because so many people are apathetic when it come to bank fees. I'm pretty anal about using my own bank, but most people I know are not. If people would stop using "just any" machine, then the fees would go down until the price was fair.

I didn't mind paying $1 to use another machine. Now that it's upwards of $4 per withdrawl, that is a significant amount. On a $60 withdrawl, that works out to 2400% interest. (if you want to look at it that way)

Put me in the "not really paying attention to the fees crowd" My wife gets pretty ticked at me when she looks at our account online and see's these stupid $2.50 charges from the owners of the machine and then another $1.50 from the bank. I don't really think about it but you do that once a week and that's 15 bucks a month or so

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Because so many people are apathetic when it come to bank fees. I'm pretty anal about using my own bank, but most people I know are not. If people would stop using "just any" machine, then the fees would go down until the price was fair.

I didn't mind paying $1 to use another machine. Now that it's upwards of $4 per withdrawl, that is a significant amount. On a $60 withdrawl, that works out to 2400% interest. (if you want to look at it that way)

I'd like to see your math that says $4 works out to 2400% interest on a $60 withdrawl.

What is the period of the interest? What are you using as the period in which you are getting charged interest. Because the way I look at it is that $4 on a $6 withdrawl works out to 6.7% withdrawl fee. I'm not sure how you managed to figure out interest on an instantaneous transaction.

[Slava]

I hadn't planned on supporting the NDP next time around, but this is a good policy. It drives me crazy how much it costs for me to access my own money. I know that you can "use your own bank", but there is no incentive for the banks to have too many ATM's, because the consumer pays the fees anyway. I also hate the idea of service charges for internet banking....I'm the one doing the work!!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'd like to see your math that says $4 works out to 2400% interest on a $60 withdrawl.

I was basing it on getting $60 today from a compeditor ATM, as opposed to tomorrow from my own bank. So the 6.7% interest for a 1 day loan works out to 2400% per anum.

Yes, perhaps a bit of a reach. But there are laws in place that state that if I lend a friend money, I cannot charge him 6.7% interest for a 1 day loan. Yes this is a "service charge", however it is still way too much in my mind.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Good idea. Doubt it will ever get done though.

[ernie]

Not sure that's entirely true. It may be from bank to bank but I'm sure you pay an extra fee at the private ATM machines in the states.

[MarchHare]

I hate -- HATE -- the fees for using ATMs, but this is really none of the government's business. Banks are free to charge any exhorbitant fees they want, and consumers are free to choose not to pay them. If you don't want to get dinged with the fee, use your own bank's machines. It's not like you have to pay $4.00 at one of those expensive ATMs they have in bars and such; plan ahead and stop at your own bank for cash if you're going out for a night of drinking.

[TimSJ]

finally i agree with something that the NDP says.

[RedHot25]

The story is updated now, with the banks' view of things....

But the CBA issued a statement in response to Layton's announcement, saying the banks charge fees to help pay to maintain their ABM networks. Raymond J. Protti, president and CEO of the CBA, said in a release banks charge consumers a convenience fee when using a competitor's account to be fair to their own customers.
"It's like saying to clients of a gym, 'we're going to let customers of other gyms in to use the weight room. We're not going to charge them, and you'll be subsidizing their use of it,' " Protti said.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I was basing it on getting $60 today from a compeditor ATM, as opposed to tomorrow from my own bank. So the 6.7% interest for a 1 day loan works out to 2400% per anum.

Yes, perhaps a bit of a reach. But there are laws in place that state that if I lend a friend money, I cannot charge him 6.7% interest for a 1 day loan. Yes this is a "service charge", however it is still way too much in my mind.

Okay, great but I could walk 15 mintues to the bank down the street and use their machine, so that works out to 340000% interest.

I'm gald you acknoweldge that it's a service charge, but looking at it as interest is just goofy, and comparing it to interest laws is just goofy as well.

Not it's a little unclear if this is to eliminate banks/ATM companies from charging their own customers of if it'll do away with ALL ATM fees. If you do away with all ATM fees (especially those little fastcash ones in every convenience store) then say goodbye to easy access to your cash, because there won't be any incentive for banks or indipendant ATM companies to build them.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I hate -- HATE -- the fees for using ATMs, but this is really none of the government's business. Banks are free to charge any exhorbitant fees they want, and consumers are free to choose not to pay them. If you don't want to get dinged with the fee, use your own bank's machines. It's not like you have to pay $4.00 at one of those expensive ATMs they have in bars and such; plan ahead and stop at your own bank for cash if you're going out for a night of drinking.

I agree with this stance.

I want to know how much our taxes would go up under an NDP government. Apparently it's OK for governments to take our hard-earned money, but it's not OK for private corporations to do the same. At least with banks we have a choice.

[worth]

As said before, most people (people I know anyway) don't bat an eye at the charges. I always try to use my own bank, and I have an account whereby if I keep a sufficient level of funds in it, I don't get charged any fees for debit or withdraw transactions.

Couple bucks might not seem like a lot, but when you pay $3 on $60, thats a lot.

Personally, I don't feel as if its up to any government to regulate what the atm charges you. Most of the time the $3 ones are independent cash machines and not banks. (nor should the government be taxing me as much as I am getting taxed. I suppose i'm part libritarian.)

If people would stop using them and use their own bank, they wouldn't be a need for them and the problem would be solved. As long as people are willing to pay outrageous fees to take out a miniscule amount of money, well, they'll be there. That is until the cashless society kicks into high gear. Fingerprint scans and microchips for everyone!

[FlamesAddiction]

Open up a President's Choice account. No dings from other banking institutions. You still get them from the bar machines though.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

"It's like saying to clients of a gym, 'we're going to let customers of other gyms in to use the weight room. We're not going to charge them, and you'll be subsidizing their use of it,' " Protti said.

I think it's more like, you have a membership with a gym, but if you decide to go to another gym once a week, and rent a towel, your gym will charge you for using the competitors towels.

[Sample00]

gonna chime in with some stats about ATM's :

Ø Most adult people in Canada are permanently in possession of debit and/or credit cards (plastic money) with not enough cash in their pockets at a given time to cover their expenses.
Ø The average sum of cash that ATM users withdraw out of a Machine in each transaction is $60.00 (sixty dollars).
Ø 2% - 3% of the people who see an ATM sign and/or an ATM inside a business end up withdrawing cash out of the Machine.
Ø Due to the so called “cash impulse buying effect” users of ATMs spend more money inside a business than users of POS Terminals (Interac Machines).
Ø When ATM users withdraw cash inside businesses they usually spend back, right away in those places, between 15% and 70+% of the cash withdrawn, depending on the kind of business. For example: i) 15% - 40% is spent in Convenience/Grocery Stores, Gas Stations and Coffee Shops; ii) 50% - 70% is spent in Restaurants and 70+% is spent in Bars and Night Clubs.

now dont shoot the messenger as I got this information off a site that sells ATM machines, so the numbers could be a bit skewed, but after thinking about it a little bit, the numbers seem to make sense.

[Thunderball]

I hate to say it, but Layton has a bit of a point.

To me, bank fees are almost like usury, and since banking is somewhat protected in Canada, perhaps its something to look into.

Personally, I try to stick to my bank when possible, but sometimes that's not possible... I guess the argument is if its part of the "interac family" there shouldn't be a fee for using it.