Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You are right there, textcritic. I agree that all indications are that we needed to get rid of Neal. But the fact remains, I don't believe Lucic makes the Flames better.

Everything we are doing right now is trying to polish a turd. And the problem is, we are actually getting a bit lucky with Lucic (and Bennett) right now in that their poor on-ice play hasn't really burned us yet. That line is going to start costing us goals against sooner rather than later. And if I'm being honest, the only mitigation I see is to bench Lucic and put Czarnik out in his place. But that's not going to happen.

While Lucic hasn't really caused anything positive on ice (unless his fight, which maybe triggered a comeback counts), I haven't seen him do anything poor that should have burned the Flames. He's positioning is quite sound, he hustles, and leans into people pretty effectively. That line is never going to score a bunch.

I also recall that Ryan's good play last year was not as evidence off the bat. maybe his starts are a bit slow. If he revs up a bit, I think Lucic and Bennett will benefit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You are right there, textcritic. I agree that all indications are that we needed to get rid of Neal. But the fact remains, I don't believe Lucic makes the Flames better.

No, I agree. But I think the expectation is that Lucic will not make the team any worse, and a team that led the Western Conference in scoring could afford to move a one dimensional forward who was not scoring for a player from whom they at least knew what they were getting.

Everything we are doing right now is trying to polish a turd. And the problem is, we are actually getting a bit lucky with Lucic (and Bennett) right now in that their poor on-ice play hasn't really burned us yet. That line is going to start costing us goals against sooner rather than later. And if I'm being honest, the only mitigation I see is to bench Lucic and put Czarnik out in his place. But that's not going to happen.

Maybe, but I think it is still too early to know for sure. The team has not played anywhere near as well as they are capable of playing, and lots of players are getting buried in their own zone: for as well as Monahan has started the season, he is sporting an abysmal 40.2 SAT%. I expect this will correct itself as the team gets back to their game more consistently. I mean, for all his warts Lucic was one of the Oilers better possession drivers last year.

[Huntingwhale]

Paraphrasing someone's comment on HF, but who knew the secret to the Oilers success wouldn't be a handful of 1st overall picks. It was James Neal all along!

[Bonded]

Outside of Neal lighting it up in Edmonton, Lucic has been bad outside of the 'truculence'.

[jlh2640]

His hot start makes us look bad. However, he was a lazy, pouty hockey player. He played uninspired hockey all year with some bad luck as well. The James Neal we are seeing is the guy who got humbled and a kick in the ass. ood for him

But lets not forget, hes playing with Mcdavid and Drais. Alex Chaisson scored 22 last year. Drais had 50

Lucic has been better than I expected, just ask the guys what they all think. We lacked truculence and it hurts us at times. 2 fights, one sparked a comeback. The other beat up a dirty player who took liberties on guys in the playoffs last year. At some point we need some goals from him however he fits a bottm 6 role. Is younger and cheaper. Neal wont sustain this pace.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Outside of Neal lighting it up in Edmonton, Lucic has been bad outside of the 'truculence'.

I dont think you can he has been "bad". He hasnt taken too many dumb penalties. Was beat last night but the effort was there. And is more visible than Neal ever was last year at any point.

[Huntingwhale]

I think Oiler fans are being quite vocal about this trade because let's face it, they haven't had a reason to be excited about a trade in years. When was the last time they made a big trade like this and actually came out on top and had something to gloat about? This is their big moment to shine. Even though it's been only 1 week into the season, you'd better believe they are going to hang onto this with every muscle in their bodies.

Even if Neal wasn't traded and was still a Flame, does anybody really think he'd be producing at this pace? He'd likely be buried in the bottom 6 and moping around. Let's not forget he was ''praying for a trade'', so it's not like he'd be busting his ass here to turn things around.

I get why their fans are happy to have finally had a trade work out for them. But it's not like the Flames lost a big piece of the puzzle. It's funny watching them make fun of us for trying to spin things and justify the trade after years of making fun of Lucic's contract. And to a certain extent they are right. But it's also true on our end; it was addition by subtraction to trade Neal and it has absolutely zero effect on the team's depth scoring-wise.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Paraphrasing someone's comment on HF, but who knew the secret to the Oilers success wouldn't be a handful of 1st overall picks. It was James Neal all along!

I'm sure it's partially coincidence but it's hard to argue that winning has followed him around. Nashville, Vegas, and the Flames in successive seasons had their best seasons in recent history with him.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

While Lucic hasn't really caused anything positive on ice (unless his fight, which maybe triggered a comeback counts), I haven't seen him do anything poor that should have burned the Flames. He's positioning is quite sound, he hustles, and leans into people pretty effectively. That line is never going to score a bunch.

I also recall that Ryan's good play last year was not as evidence off the bat. maybe his starts are a bit slow. If he revs up a bit, I think Lucic and Bennett will benefit.

Given how badly that line is getting swamped in terms of possession, it's inevitable that they are going to start giving up goals if they don't turn that around. Also, can't depend on the PK always rescuing us the way they did against Vancouver as Lucic's inability to skate leads to bad hooking penalties.

That said, the fight against LA did have a positive impact, I do agree there.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

His hot start makes us look bad. However, he was a lazy, pouty hockey player. He played uninspired hockey all year with some bad luck as well. The James Neal we are seeing is the guy who got humbled and a kick in the ass. ood for him

But lets not forget, hes playing with Mcdavid and Drais. Alex Chaisson scored 22 last year. Drais had 50

Lucic has been better than I expected, just ask the guys what they all think. We lacked truculence and it hurts us at times. 2 fights, one sparked a comeback. The other beat up a dirty player who took liberties on guys in the playoffs last year. At some point we need some goals from him however he fits a bottm 6 role. Is younger and cheaper. Neal wont sustain this pace.

Lucic also has had a couple big hits too. I think it was Klingberg he got with one last night. I also feel Tkachuk is hitting more. I think having Lucic there is part of it. Hoping Bennett starts to hand out a few soon.

Even if Neal has a good year and even if you consider maybe if he played on first line here and we moved lindholm to 2nd line or center and he had good year here too hes 32. Oilers fans and media can get all excited for neal all they want and 4 and 0 is great but who else has stepped up? Puljujarvi? Yamamoto? Benson? Bouchard? Klefbom? Larson? Maybe Nurse has but he is an expensive rfa this summer so I'm ok with that. If the only new bright spot on your team is a 32 year old who got a few tip goals and a couple gift goals from NYI goalies it's only a matter of time they slow down.

If Mangipane can take that 2nd line role I'll take the 22 year old over 32 year old anyday. If rasmus can take top pairing spot I'll take that too or Rittich playing like top 10 nhl goalie. Yep I'll take all that over James Neal playing well

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I think it was a simple matter of the Flames not living up to their commitment they made when they signed him. It was a bad fit...

I don't agree with much you say but this is my feeling as well. You commit that much money and term to a player that pushes your team to the cap ceiling you owe it to put 100% into making it work and the Flames just didn't do that and in the process added a worse player for almost the same money so they turned was was supposed to be a major splash for that elusive goal scoring winger into the most expensive plugger in the league on a team that's never had an issue finding bottom six pluggers. Nobody will convince me that a small handful of fights a year is worth what Lucic brings to the team overall.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm sure it's partially coincidence but it's hard to argue that winning has followed him around. Nashville, Vegas, and the Flames in successive seasons had their best seasons in recent history with him.

Nashville had an improved regular season after he left.

But it's interesting (and telling) that successful teams felt he was not worth keeping around.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Nashville had an improved regular season after he left.

But it's interesting (and telling) that successful teams felt he was not worth keeping around.

Well you are conveniently omitting that both teams wanted to keep him but the expansion draft and free agency got in the way.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well you are conveniently omitting that both teams wanted to keep him but the expansion draft and free agency got in the way.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Given how badly that line is getting swamped in terms of possession, it's inevitable that they are going to start giving up goals if they don't turn that around...

But the WHOLE TEAM has been getting swamped in these first few games. How much of this is a team issue that will readjust with the unfolding of the season? As the team moves closer to their own potential, I suspect we will see better returns from the third line.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well you are conveniently omitting that both teams wanted to keep him but the expansion draft and free agency got in the way.

Vegas wanted no part of him. Public lip service notwithstanding.

[ComixZone]

Milan Lucic: 50 CF%, 0 pts, -2, 0 S%, 12:01 Ice Time

James Neal: 43.6 CF%, 7pts, -1, 46.7 S%, 18:32 Ice Time

Make what you will of it, but when you see a dude with a better shooting % than a CF%...we’ll see where things shake out.

[The Yen Man]

I'm actually pleasantly surprised by Neal's bounce back. I'm honestly cheering for Neal to hit 21 goals so we can get that draft pick. Only 14 more to go!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People need to forget about Neal for a moment and focus on Lucic and what he provides for his salary. Removing Neal doesn't change the fact that one of the team's highest paid players is a fringe NHL player. I still go back to the GM making the commitment to Neal. I assume this team is advised by their pro scouts so someone really messed up here. The GM and pro scouts that thought it would work or the coach for ensuring it wasn't going to work. This is a massive debacle for the team.

Right but that ship sailed the second the ink dried on the Neal contract.

Neal was Calgary's worst skater last year. You could certainly make the case that Lucic is that guy this year for sure.

One out, one in. Net neutral. Calgary's living in the intangibles now which luckily we've seen in two of four games to start the season.

Neal didn't have tangibles or intangibles of any kind.

The trade is unfortunate, but the problem started in July of 2018 not June of 2019

[northcrunk]

Pretty telling when you are a -1 with 7 points