The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[tkflames]

Meh....given Johnny and Monny's contract...I dont expect the flames to do an 8 year deal anyways. I expect 6 regardless...at best 7. That's seems right from a risk standpoint. God forbid Chucky had an injury that was ceiling limiting. You would need to carry an 8 year contract through effectively two rebuilds. Best case scenario on the upside of an 8 year contract is that you get a $3M discount for the final 2 years. You can pay him if he is worth it as part of another 6 or 7 year deal.


Another way of saying this is that if Chucky wants to be here and he is worth it...what's the point of rolling a $2-3M discount back to now where the cap is one expansion team and a US TV deal lower. If your only reason for locking him in longer is so he doesn't leave...you are signing him for the wrong reason...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by tkflames

...Another way of saying this is that if Chucky wants to be here and he is worth it...what's the point of rolling a $2-3M discount back to now where the cap is one expansion team and a US TV deal lower. If your only reason for locking him in longer is so he doesn't leave...you are signing him for the wrong reason...

...wait—what?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by tkflames

M Best case scenario on the upside of an 8 year contract is that you get a $3M discount for the final 2 years.

There would be no discount on the last 2 years of an 8 year deal. In fact, it would be just the opposite.

Firstly it would cover 2 UFA years. And secondly, and even more importantly, it would delay his UFA until a time that would be non-advantageous for Tkachuk. The cost of those 2-years would be substantial.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

There would be no discount on the last 2 years of an 8 year deal. In fact, it would be just the opposite.

Firstly it would cover 2 UFA years. And secondly, and even more importantly, it would delay his UFA until a time that would be non-advantageous for Tkachuk. The cost of those 2-years would be substantial.

I think you missed my point...say for argument sake that his contract is structured 4 x 7 and 4 x 9 = 64 total (8 AAV). The only reason for signing Tkachuck for 8 instead of 6 is because you feel that if he was a UFA in year 6, he would get 11 AAV. Otherwise what's the point? If Tkachuck likes it here and we still like him at the end of year 6....pay him 6 x 11AAV. That is a net cost increase of $6M for 2 years or an AAV discount of 1M/ yr in 6 years. By signing him for 8 years now...you pay an extra $16M (with a cap impact of 0.33M for all 8 years starting today where we want to minimize).

If Tkachuck doesnt want to be here in 6 years at 11 per...then what is the value to us now of forcing him to stick around. If he does want to stick around then I am sure you can make the numbers work. I dont get fan obsession with always wanting an 8 year or longer deal previously...outside of satisfying a personal need for certainty...I dont think its smart from either player or team from a risk management standpoint.

[dammage79]

Sucks so many key RFAs are close to missing camp.

Tkachuk
Marner
Laine
Connor
Provorov
Carlo
Konecny and more.

There's a massive disconnect going on here. Also makes me really curious how many get shuffled for another unsigned RFA.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sucks so many key RFAs are close to missing camp.

Tkachuk
Marner
Laine
Connor
Provorov
Carlo
Konecny and more.

There's a massive disconnect going on here. Also makes me really curious how many get shuffled for another unsigned RFA.

Thanks again, Dubas.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...wait—what?

Sorry...see my other reply. The point is that in 6 years if Tkachuk wants to be here and the Flames still see value...you can easily extend him at market rate. If he is not worth a raise...you have flexibility...if he doesn't want to be here at market value...then why would you want to force him.

I get the benefit of having an underpaid Gaudreau (ditto for Tkachuk) on the team...but why rebuild your whole salary structure just to get an extra 2 years when the most likely scenario is that by Tkachuks next contract (even at 6 years) the entire core will have needed to re-up and there likely will not have been a high draft pick in between.

[bubbsy]

Toronto is dumb. The Shana-plan is stupid, yet nobody is brave enough in the media to even say anything.

Their entire rebuild focused on skilled forwards, leaving them without a single playoff round win, yet they are forced to pay all their ELC players kane/toews money.

They had zero reason to sign tavares, with mathews, kadri, nylander all Centers. They had plenty of skill at forward and a garbage d. Yet, they go get tavares. They got no closer to beating the same bruins even with tavares. They really made the deal to prove that they COULD land a big time Toronto born ufa star rather than whether they really SHOULD.

Then they go get Marleau in the offseason and give him 3 years, yet again ignoring their craptastic defence. Just dumb management yet again. Not to mention having to give up a 1st round pick just to get the guy outta there.

Then they go out and do the nylander blunder, and then follow it up with the mathews deal losing out on both caphit and term, in a precedent setting fashion.

Bunch of geniuses over there. Here's to another 60 years and no cups for the loser franchise.

[Monahammer]

I’d do 6 years for tkachuk but not 5. Hoping for 8 seems ambitious to me

[chockfullofgoodness]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Toronto is dumb. The Shana-plan is stupid, yet nobody is brave enough in the media to even say anything.

Their entire rebuild focused on skilled forwards, leaving them without a single playoff round win, yet they are forced to pay all their ELC players kane/toews money.

They had zero reason to sign tavares, with mathews, kadri, nylander all Centers. They had plenty of skill at forward and a garbage d. Yet, they go get tavares. They got no closer to beating the same bruins even with tavares. They really made the deal to prove that they COULD land a big time Toronto born ufa star rather than whether they really SHOULD.

Then they go get Marleau in the offseason and give him 3 years, yet again ignoring their craptastic defence. Just dumb management yet again. Not to mention having to give up a 1st round pick just to get the guy outta there.

Then they go out and do the nylander blunder, and then follow it up with the mathews deal losing out on both caphit and term, in a precedent setting fashion.

Bunch of geniuses over there. Here's to another 60 years and no cups for the loser franchise.

According to Cap Friendly they have ZERO cap space. I'm dumbfounded as to how they clear space to get the Marner deal done.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by chockfullofgoodness

According to Cap Friendly they have ZERO cap space. I'm dumbfounded as to how they clear space to get the Marner deal done.

They have $13.5 million on injured reserve so if they don't sign Marner until day 2 of the regular season then they can use that IR money on Marner.

[Jacks]

Make him a reasonable offer and give him a year to think about it.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Toronto is dumb. The Shana-plan is stupid, yet nobody is brave enough in the media to even say anything.

Their entire rebuild focused on skilled forwards, leaving them without a single playoff round win, yet they are forced to pay all their ELC players kane/toews money.

They had zero reason to sign tavares, with mathews, kadri, nylander all Centers. They had plenty of skill at forward and a garbage d. Yet, they go get tavares. They got no closer to beating the same bruins even with tavares. They really made the deal to prove that they COULD land a big time Toronto born ufa star rather than whether they really SHOULD.

Then they go get Marleau in the offseason and give him 3 years, yet again ignoring their craptastic defence. Just dumb management yet again. Not to mention having to give up a 1st round pick just to get the guy outta there.

Then they go out and do the nylander blunder, and then follow it up with the mathews deal losing out on both caphit and term, in a precedent setting fashion.

Bunch of geniuses over there. Here's to another 60 years and no cups for the loser franchise.

Their plan was all based around the short term hype train, without enough concern for the long term. Not quite as inept today of course, but they're still essentially Edmonton-east with how the front office operates.

With Tavares on the back half of his career now, and their backs against the wall with Marner, the reeling in of the hometown boy is proving to be a redundant move that didn't even really nudge the needle much, and dare I say was even unnecessary to succeeding. Put that money towards shoring up the D and you're in a far better position. Funny how ALL that hoopla about Matthews-Tavares died right down.

Got that firepower at forward and they still can't put it together. Shows that it's about much more than just scoring ability. You have to be able to shut the other side down when required. Boston can play that game all day long, have better playoff performers and aren't leaving that division any time soon.

[FlamesAddiction]

Do we have any idea what the Flames already offered Tkachuk? Aside from extending a QO as a formality of course.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Do we have any idea what the Flames already offered Tkachuk? Aside from extending a QO as a formality of course.

I'm probably wrong but I think Francis a ways back said 7x7.5? Or something like that.

[blender]

I don't think anyone has leaked an offer. I highly doubt either side would want that

[StAlbertFlame]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Toronto is dumb. The Shana-plan is stupid, yet nobody is brave enough in the media to even say anything.

Their entire rebuild focused on skilled forwards, leaving them without a single playoff round win, yet they are forced to pay all their ELC players kane/toews money.

They had zero reason to sign tavares, with mathews, kadri, nylander all Centers. They had plenty of skill at forward and a garbage d. Yet, they go get tavares. They got no closer to beating the same bruins even with tavares. They really made the deal to prove that they COULD land a big time Toronto born ufa star rather than whether they really SHOULD.

Then they go get Marleau in the offseason and give him 3 years, yet again ignoring their craptastic defence. Just dumb management yet again. Not to mention having to give up a 1st round pick just to get the guy outta there.

Then they go out and do the nylander blunder, and then follow it up with the mathews deal losing out on both caphit and term, in a precedent setting fashion.

Bunch of geniuses over there. Here's to another 60 years and no cups for the loser franchise.

Couldn't agree more... Maple Leafs still managing like they have unlimited funds in combination with an unlimited cap.

[Hackey]

6 years 7.75M

[sureLoss]

FWIW, Chris Johnston on NHL Tonight says he expected Point and maybe Tkachuk to be among the first of the big name RFAs to sign

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=RFBGc17oR2Y

[Poe969]

with teams like the leafs waiting for the season to start so they can get the extra cap space from LTIR, I think an offer sheet still isn't out of the question. I'm guessing the leafs are going to throw all kinds of money at whatever term Marner wants as soon as they have the space because they can't make the space right now. If a team were to sign Marner to an offer sheet that has to be matched right before the season starts, it would really put the leafs in a tough spot. On day 2 of the season, the leafs will have 13 mill in cap space but have none right now, they wouldn't be able to match an offer sheet without gutting the team.

I really hope a team like the habs throw an offer sheet at Point or Marner just in time to screw over a team like Tampa or Toronto.