Cars on icy roads.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Thanks Frank.
That is rediculous. Too bad they stopped right before the firetruck took the plunge.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Good moves, too many people panic.
Probably most Calgarians know that putting your car in neutral reduces stopping distances dramatically but those on the West coast wouldn't. I got in the habit of doing this everytime I used the brakes to stop in winter conditions.

How do you figure this? You lose the ability to engine brake, and you reduce your ability to apply power quickly if you need to maneouver (your traction is reduced, but you still have some, and can use it to create a controlled skid or slide if needed). The problem is compounded in AWD cars, and is totally unneccessary on ABS vehicles to boot, since you're not going to lock up the wheels anyways.

-Scott

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

How do you figure this? You lose the ability to engine brake, and you reduce your ability to apply power quickly if you need to maneouver (your traction is reduced, but you still have some, and can use it to create a controlled skid or slide if needed). The problem is compounded in AWD cars, and is totally unneccessary on ABS vehicles to boot, since you're not going to lock up the wheels anyways.

-Scott

Engine braking is fine for slowing down especially when you have a motor with big pistons but if you want to stop you don't want your drive wheels working against you.

If you're in a slide or have lost control having power may help but I'm talking about a straight stop. Try it, you'll find out what I'm talking about.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Probably most Calgarians know that putting your car in neutral reduces stopping distances dramatically but those on the West coast wouldn't.

Except for the fact that on icy roads it's the traction of the road that is limiting your stopping distance. The key to winter driving (or mud, or pavement for that matter) is keeping all wheels spinning in the direction you want to go. In an AWD or FWD car the best thing you can do in a spin is to apply a little bit of gas and "pull" yourself out of the spin. If you're in neutral and on the brakes hard how do you expect to straighten out if things get sideways? Braking is what sends people into the ditch. Vehicles have a lot more traction than people give them credit, you just need to trust it.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Engine braking is fine for slowing down especially when you have a motor with big pistons but if you want to stop you don't want your drive wheels working against you.

If you're in a slide or have lost control having power may help but I'm talking about a straight stop. Try it, you'll find out what I'm talking about.

Nope, that's incorrect. If you can lock the brakes up, you already have more stopping power than traction, whether or not the transmission is working against the brakes somewhat or not. Traction is the limiting factor in winter driving (and a lot of summer driving too), not stopping power.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by kevman

In an AWD or FWD car the best thing you can do in a spin is to apply a little bit of gas and "pull" yourself out of the spin.

Keep in mind that Vulcan isn't talking about controlling a skid, but reducing stopping distance on regular slippery roads.

Putting a car into neutral will indded reduce stopping distance; especially in an ABS vehicle. Partly because threshold braking is extremely difficult in an ABS car, and because between the brake cycles you don't have the engine pushing the car forward.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by kevman

Except for the fact that on icy roads it's the traction of the road that is limiting your stopping distance. The key to winter driving (or mud, or pavement for that matter) is keeping all wheels spinning in the direction you want to go. In an AWD or FWD car the best thing you can do in a spin is to apply a little bit of gas and "pull" yourself out of the spin. If you're in neutral and on the brakes hard how do you expect to straighten out if things get sideways? Braking is what sends people into the ditch. Vehicles have a lot more traction than people give them credit, you just need to trust it.

I agree with most of what you say but when you are jsut coming to stop sign or red light, putting the car in neutral before you lose it, reduces stopping distance so you don't have to hammer on the brakes and get into a slide etc. Try it, you'll like it.

[mykalberta]

Wow, just wow.

I have never seen anyone that stupid in my entire life. Was it a man/woman/old/young what. I have my suspicions but that is just so crazy - I am speechless.

MYK

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Nope, that's incorrect. If you can lock the brakes up, you already have more stopping power than traction, whether or not the transmission is working against the brakes somewhat or not. Traction is the limiting factor in winter driving (and a lot of summer driving too), not stopping power.

Well I'm just offering advice gained by many years of driving and a lot of it as a professional. Suit yourself.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Putting a car into neutral will indded reduce stopping distance;

...on dry pavement.

On Icy roads it is not the power of your brakes that is limiting your stopping distance it is the lack of traction between your wheels and the surface. The difference between having your vehicle in neutral or not may be the difference between having to apply 30% braking power or 28% braking power to get to the threshold before your tires break loose. That said I would much rather have the ability to get power to the wheels the instant that something did go wrong.

[Stumptown]

I've heard about this video a few times in the last couple days, but this was the first time I saw it. I'm sure Josh will agree, everyone here loses about 70 IQ points when it snows, so it could have been anyone in those cars. I especially love how when one car finally comes to a stop, the next dumbass decides it's his turn to point his car down the hill.

When people wonder why I don't drive in this town, I now have this video to explain. It's going to be worse tomorrow, they still haven't plowed or gravelled more than 1% of the roads, it's melting, and will refreeze tonight. Glad I work from home.

[shane_c]

Reminds me of the time I had just bought my 96 Mustang GT, it was 3 days old, and ended up making a slow slide down an icy hill sideways into the back of a big delivery van. I need a new front fender, mirror, door skin and rear fender. Not a very fun night.