The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah... I don't see any of this being in line.

The context of the statement is that they are not basing their ask on Marner, they've already created the parameters and are in the process of negotiating based on it. He also took a shot at agents who are waiting on Marner to set their asks, saying agents should be able to properly evaluate the market.

You're reading way way too much into it. If you look at the quote, again in context), it does not position the Flames as regressive but other AGENTS as regressive, and I don't think it does much at all to suggest the Flames are reactive, slow, or unfair. In context, the comparisons are against the negotiation tactics of other agents in familiar RFA territory, not the Flames. There's not a negative lobbed the Flames' way in any of his quotes, literal or inherent.

I think this is a reasonable take away.

Based on specifics though, my inference is the other way. There's lots of other ways to answer that question that don't establish a timeline for negotiations and the fact that you've tabled an offer you think is fair.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Toonage

IMO it never looks good when an agent, who until now has been silent, chooses to speak up. Regardless of his message its never by accident.

It looks like he's attending a charity golf tournament in Montreal (you can see Serge Savard's name on the backdrop). Based on the way he starts his response, it doesn't even sound like he was responding specifically to a question about Tkachuk, just the RFAs in general.

Also, I thought that Tkachuk's uncle, Craig Oster (his mom's brother), was his agent, just like he was for Keith. Oster works with Meehan at Newport Sports. Unless something has changed in that regards, Meehan might not even be directly involved in the Tkachuk negotiations.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by getbak

It looks like he's attending a charity golf tournament in Montreal (you can see Serge Savard's name on the backdrop). Based on the way he starts his response, it doesn't even sound like he was responding specifically to a question about Tkachuk, just the RFAs in general.

Also, I thought that Tkachuk's uncle, Craig Oster (his mom's brother), was his agent, just like he was for Keith. Oster works with Meehan at Newport Sports. Unless something has changed in that regards, Meehan might not even be directly involved in the Tkachuk negotiations.

I think Meehan functions essentially as managing partner and is involved in all negotiations. Whereas client servicing would be up to Oster, I believe now that the client evaluation/compensation model isn't something controlled by an individual agent at Newport.

[Freeway]

FWIW, Meehan's comments don't really seem too negative or inflammatory.
They started talks in June, "and we're working with Calgary now."

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think this is a reasonable take away.

Based on specifics though, my inference is the other way. There's lots of other ways to answer that question that don't establish a timeline for negotiations and the fact that you've tabled an offer you think is fair.

Sure, but even in the event the agent chooses to answer the question differently (I personally don't see why he would), there is virtually nothing within Meehan's response to indicate that "this negotiation has not gone well from their perspective," nor that "the next salvo of statements would be talking about ending talks."

My interpretation of Meehan's comments strike me as fairly benign:

"Our approach was proactive and progressive. We started early, formulated a fair position and delivered it to Calgary in early June. We are involved in negotiations with Calgary now based on that fair offer."

Like PepsiFree has correctly pointed out, Meehan's response is clearly to a question about the structure of the entire RFA landscape, and addresses only the specifics of what they are doing with Tkachuk relative to other RFAs. They're still negotiating off of an offer as opposed to waiting to see how other new contracts shape the market. If anything, this gives me some added confidence that a deal with Tkachuk is signed before the season begins.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Freeway

FWIW, Meehan's comments don't really seem too negative or inflammatory.
They started talks in June, "and we're working with Calgary now."

Yeah nothing to see here.

Just agent speak towards the end of summer with lots of RFAs unsigned. We will see the trickle through of comments from most of these camps in the next week or so.

The leverage game is starting, as expected.

Nothing inflammatory at all in what he said. In fact compared to Winnipeg/Laine, they're talking, which is good.

[DoubleK]

Does Meehan have Rantanen or any other RFAs?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Does Meehan have Rantanen or any other RFAs?

It looks like Travis Konecny is the only other significant RFA represented by Newport Sports.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by getbak

It looks like Travis Konecny is the only other significant RFA represented by Newport Sports.

Thanks. Was kinda thinking this might have been an angle.

[Reggie Dunlop]

One thing Meehan does not anticipate is a standoff similar to one the Leafs had with William Nylander where he ended up signing before the 5 p.m. ET RFA deadline on Dec. 1.

“The worst thing you want is a Nylander kind of scenario where the player is out until December, that’s not beneficial for the player or the club.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...r-flames-june/

[dustygoon]

Not too bad a comment....Meehan basically just said he hit a decent forehand down the line. Ball is in Calgary's court and Tre is scampering back and getting a racquet on it probably.

[N26]

Haven't voted in the poll because I still think it will end up being a 1 or 2 year @ $6.75. With the need to keep Brodie now I am more sure of it.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by N26

Haven't voted in the poll because I still think it will end up being a 1 or 2 year @ $6.75. With the need to keep Brodie now I am more sure of it.

Why does Tkachuk do that though? He's risking 10s of millions of guaranteed money for what? He just put up an almost point per game season. Now is the time for him to cash in on a four or five year deal at at least 8 million per year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Why does Tkachuk do that though? He's risking 10s of millions of guaranteed money for what? He just put up an almost point per game season. Now is the time for him to cash in on a four or five year deal at at least 8 million per year.

Well, if Treliving is only willing to offer that his choice is to sit out a season. Or go to the KHL. I guess that's why.

A four year deal should not cost 8 million. Why would Treliving do that?

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, if Treliving is only willing to offer that his choice is to sit out a season. Or go to the KHL. I guess that's why.

A four year deal should not cost 8 million. Why would Treliving do that?

No Tkachuk for a whole season would leave a big hole in your lineup, no? Who is going to step up and contribute on the second line?

The Flames really want to waste a season of Gaudreau and Gio? This is your teams primetime to do some damage.

Plus he sits out the season that bridge is burned. You basically have to trade him in the offseason and likely at a reduced return.

It's not as easy as you make it sound.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

No Tkachuk for a whole season would leave a big hole in your lineup, no? Who is going to step up and contribute on the second line?

The Flames really want to waste a season of Gaudreau and Gio? This is your teams primetime to do some damage.

Plus he sits out the season that bridge is burned. You basically have to trade him in the offseason and likely at a reduced return.

It's not as easy as you make it sound.

But the pressure on Tkachuk's side is just as pronounced as it is on the Flames.

If he sits out a full season, that is a full-year's earnings lost, and it sets in jeopardy his own NHL future. Not that Tkachuk would not play in the NHL, but more rather that his NHL rights and future remain controlled by the team he has just rebuffed. Make no mistake: the last thing Tkachuk wants to happen is to miss games because of this—to say nothing for several weeks of missed time or a full season.

Like you point out, it's not as easy as you make it sound.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, if Treliving is only willing to offer that his choice is to sit out a season. Or go to the KHL. I guess that's why.

A four year deal should not cost 8 million. Why would Treliving do that?

That might be the new market, based on Matthews and Aho's deals.

I guess we'll see who blinks first.

Historically it's the teams, who are chasing talent that is not readily available elsewhere.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But the pressure on Tkachuk's side is just as pronounced as it is on the Flames.

If he sits out a full season, that is a full-year's earnings lost, and it sets in jeopardy his own NHL future. Not that Tkachuk would not play in the NHL, but more rather that his NHL rights and future remain controlled by the team he has just rebuffed. Make no mistake: the last thing Tkachuk wants to happen is to miss games because of this—to say nothing for several weeks of missed time or a full season.

Like you point out, it's not as easy as you make it sound.

Obviously there is pressure in different ways on both sides.

The situation right now isn't a nylander situation where the Leafs had cap space to sign him but didn't want to pay the price, the situation right now is the Flames don't have capspace to sign him.

The Flames also need Tkachuk a hell of a lot more than the Leafs needed Nylander.

Right now there is some ambiguity about just how much Tkachuk impacts the lineup, but in a situation where he goes unsigned for the month of October for example, and the flames are a 500 or sub 500 team, the pressure on the flames is substantially higher.

In the middle of your contending window you don't let your second best offensive player sit out and lose a ton of games as a result just to prove a point. Treliving is on the hot seat here, getting behind the 8 ball because you didn't make enough room to sign one of your best players isn't a great look after the last 2 seasons he's had.

I don't think there is any real concern or debate between the organization and tkachuk's camp on what he's going to be paid. The problem of not signing tkachuk is directly related to the lack of cap dollars the Flames have.

IMO, this is a one sided issue at this point; the flames need to get their house in order.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Obviously there is pressure in different ways on both sides.

The situation right now isn't a nylander situation where the Leafs had cap space to sign him but didn't want to pay the price, the situation right now is the Flames don't have capspace to sign him.

The Flames also need Tkachuk a hell of a lot more than the Leafs needed Nylander.

Right now there is some ambiguity about just how much Tkachuk impacts the lineup, but in a situation where he goes unsigned for the month of October for example, and the flames are a 500 or sub 500 team, the pressure on the flames is substantially higher.

In the middle of your contending window you don't let your second best offensive player sit out and lose a ton of games as a result just to prove a point. Treliving is on the hot seat here, getting behind the 8 ball because you didn't make enough room to sign one of your best players isn't a great look after the last 2 seasons he's had.

I don't think there is any real concern or debate between the organization and tkachuk's camp on what he's going to be paid. The problem of not signing tkachuk is directly related to the lack of cap dollars the Flames have.

IMO, this is a one sided issue at this point; the flames need to get their house in order.

The Flames have to make a move for sure ... they have to clear some space.

But you don't honestly think the two sides are done on a deal and that's the hold up do you? This is a multi team vs multi player game of chicken with the Flames holding a pretty key player in the battle.

I'd imagine GMs think it vital not to be the second contract to emerge like the system breaking Matthews example.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames have to make a move for sure ... they have to clear some space.

But you don't honestly think the two sides are done on a deal and that's the hold up do you? This is a multi team vs multi player game of chicken with the Flames holding a pretty key player in the battle.

I'd imagine GMs think it vital not to be the second contract to emerge like the system breaking Matthews example.

I think realistically all these values are pretty much locked in at this point and it's a factor of term defining the AAV.

I think Tkachuk's camp probably gave The Flames contracts they would accept in for 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8 year terms and it's up to the flames at this point to make space for whichever term gives them their desired AAV.

I think at this point Tkachuk's camp is starting to get antsy because there is a limited pool of cap dollars available that is dwindling by the day, so long terms with higher AAVs are getting harder and harder to sign.

More or Less I think Tkachuk has the Flames over a barrel. This is the first time they've been actually competitive since Treliving has arrived. For the ownership group it's the first competitive roster in close to 15 years, and tkachuk might be the difference between making the playoffs and not, so what do you do? Pay a bunch of money to buyout players just to let tkachuk hold out and not make the dance?

I think the Flames understand what it's going to cost to sign tkachuk at this point but they havne't been able to clear the necessary cap space to do so either because no one wants the players they are willing to move, or the flames don't want to give up players that teams actually want.

Specifically, I don't think the Flames want to retain enough salary on Frolik that would make him tradeable because it doesn't really help them hit term value for Tkachuk that they want.

I think the Flames want Tkachuk for Term and can't make enough space to get there and that is what is holding everything up.

The Flames can probably fit an 8.5x5 deal by retaining 1.5 million on Frolik, but they probably can't do a 10x7 deal that they really want without moving Frolik's entire cap hit. And I don't think anyone wants to take the full price on Frolik without a pick attached, which the flames ALSO don't want to have to do.

The Brouwer/Stone buyouts have eaten up the cap you could've used on Tkachuk, I'm sure there have been discussions between the GM and the owners about just how much cash they are going to have to spend to get Treliving out from under these mistakes. I don't think they want to pay 4.5 million dollars this year for 3 guys not to play for them.