Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[Wormius]

All of what’s going on down there is exactly why I don’t want any loosening or gun laws here. Politicians pushing for that can screw themselves. I would like to see them even stricter here.

[Northendzone]

^ for sure. Once that genie is out the bottle there is no going back.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I like that they say mass shooting only account for a small percentage of the violent crimes. Very reassuring.

You'd rather the government based its advisories on emotionally-charged narratives rather then empirical facts?

Mass shootings of dozens of people don't have an effect on the safety of traveling in a country of 350 million people. Just like a horrific plane crash that gets lots of press doesn't make air travel less safe in a world where there are over 100,000 flights a day. And I wouldn't want the government of Canada pretending it does, just to validate peoples' emotional response to a crash.

[Wormius]

^^ I was getting at how bizarre a statement it is, basically saying “there are a lot of homicides here, but don’t worry only some are mass shootings”.

[flamesforcup]

I dont see why people are saying this is a gun issue when the shooter clearly had racist motives. Maybe address the demonising of certain groups of people being pushed by the right and the radicalisation of young males instead of blaming guns is more important to me.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I dont see why people are saying this is a gun issue when the shooter clearly had racist motives. Maybe address the demonising of certain groups of people being pushed by the right and the radicalisation of young males instead of blaming guns is more important to me.

Honest question:

Seriously?

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

I dont see why people are saying this is a gun issue when the shooter clearly had racist motives. Maybe address the demonising of certain groups of people being pushed by the right and the radicalisation of young males instead of blaming guns is more important to me.

Isn't access to guns an issue?

Even if I were a racist nut-bar, I would have no idea how to get access to gun. Let alone one that could do the damage that happened at these recent shootings.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Honest question:

Seriously?

His issue was he was racist. He had clear motives yet to distract everyone from the racism they say its a "gun issue". If it was black of Muslim it would have been "thug" or "terrorist".

[Acey]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

His issue was he was racist. He had clear motives yet to distract everyone from the racism they say its a "gun issue". If it was black of Muslim it would have been "thug" or "terrorist".

Are you serious right now...?

The bigger issue is that he killed 20 people with a firearm.

You cannot be serious right now.

Secondly, this is widely considered to be domestic terrorism by everybody on both sides.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Honest question:

Seriously?

The bigger issue is his motive which was he was inspired by racist rhetoric by the right wing yet. The gun should be a secondary issue here and we should talking about what radicalised him.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

The bigger issue is his motive which was he was inspired by racist rhetoric by the right wing yet.

I still think we should be talking about the fact that the US has 10x more gun deaths per capita than anybody else in the west. If you provide me a stat that the US has 10x more racist people per capita than everybody else in the west, I'll entertain the notion that guns are not the bigger issue here. Just my take...

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Acey

Are you serious right now...?

The bigger issue is that he killed 20 people with a firearm.

You cannot be serious right now.

His motive should be a real issue. When Manchester or 9/11 happened was the concentration on the planes or bombs or was it on the ideology that caused it? Its a clear double standard here. This is right wing terror inspired by the current administration yet people keep going on about the same old gun violence thing. If america never changed after sandy hook they will never change their gun laws. If this was a mentally ill lone wolf i get it but this was clearly inspired by an ideology and but because so many people follow the same ideology as him they are trying to pass it off as "gun violence" and i just see regular centrists going on and on about guns and not after the racist rhetoric by the american right wing which caused it.

Guns absolutely are an issue but they should be secondary to the demonisation of minorities which is the real motive for him.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by Acey

I still think we should be talking about the fact that the US has 10x more gun deaths per capita than anybody else in the west. If you provide me a stat that the US has 10x more racist people per capita than everybody else in the west, I'll entertain the notion that guns are not the bigger issue here. Just my take...

A guy literally shoots up a walmart because he thought "mexicans were replacing his culture" who was inspired by the christchurch shooter and synagogue shooter yet you want to push them aside and not talk about the ideology thats radicalising them?? Yes they have a gun problem but by ignoring the ideology that caused this you are just letting them grow more.

[Heavy Jack]

Sure but the loss of life and the lives affected by injury was made more traumatic due to the fact that a guy like that has the ease of access to what literally are weapons used on the battle lines of war and it’s gotten to the point where it’s just a complete and utter embarrassment. There is no need for AR-15 rifles with those types of rounds and rates of fire to be purchased by the general public and that’s the cold hard facts of it; why give people who obviously have affected minds an even greater opportunity to severely alter mass lives like this?? It’s absolutely ridiculous and it’s infuriating. The NRA is the biggest problem in all of this and it’s hard for me to stomach seeing all the pain in the faces of these regular people over all this. Your saying mental health is the issue and it’s clearly a cog in the over all problem but the tools that are being given to those people are making these mass shootings an even darker tone and it’s absolutely sickening.

I went to sleep last night heart broken for all the people affected in El Paso... and I wake up to Dayton?? Not even 12 hours between??? It’s maddening

[Acey]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

A guy literally shoots up a walmart because he thought "mexicans were replacing his culture" who was inspired by the christchurch shooter and synagogue shooter yet you want to push them aside and not talk about the ideology thats radicalising them?? Yes they have a gun problem but by ignoring the ideology that caused this you are just letting them grow more.

I'm not ignoring it, nor did I say that. I clearly said that guns are obviously the "bigger issue". In general, it's far easier to take people's guns that it is to make them stop hating people. Obviously.

If it's the only country where this regularly happens, the fix seems pretty self-explanatory. Good luck getting dudes to stop hating immigrants.

[nik-]

Hey guys, only one problem can exist at once. There can never be a confluence of two problems. It's literally impossible. Hence, since this guy was a racist, the gun wasn't a problem.

I mean seriously, look at what you're arguing with, it's moronic, stop wasting your time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Acey

I still think we should be talking about the fact that the US has 10x more gun deaths per capita than anybody else in the west. If you provide me a stat that the US has 10x more racist people per capita than everybody else in the west, I'll entertain the notion that guns are not the bigger issue here. Just my take...

I agree with you, to a extent. Looking at it, I think there were 292 mass shootings last year in the US, that's in a country of 327 million people. If you go with the whole mentally ill people, combine it with the population its a small number of people with "mental illnesses" killing a lot of people.


I was surprised to read that the US wasn't even ranked in the top 10 in mass shooting rates based on population. I think though that we hear about more mass shootings in the States just because its a major media center, and the coverage is there everyday.


But if you look at the number of actual shooters participating in mass shootings, its a low number.


However that points to the problem here and that the US gun culture.



Lets be very clear in our discussions here. Gun supporters will point to their right to bear arms to protect themselves and because its a hobby device. I dispute both of those.


A gun isn't designed as a hobby device, its designed simply to kill, the hobby aspect is more a unrelated accident then anything else. A gun with a 30 round mag that can fire shots as fast as the trigger can be pulled accurately is designed to kill, nothing more and nothing less.



I've talked on and on that the argument around having a gun for home defense is intensely flawed and creates more home defense issues then it solves, I don't feel the need to go back through that again tonight.


The issue here is the United States and their belief that everyone has a right to bear arms, and corporate self interest in protecting that right.

[Acey]

Yeah there's a bit of a rush on media coverage for the mass shootings, but my argument is generally based on just the number of non-suicide gun deaths per year in the US. It's the red bar that's 10x everybody else.

[Heavy Jack]

No more arguing. Action only please.

I thought Sandy Hook would bring change but it didn’t do anything and now has become a date that passes by like a distant memory with each passing year. Those kids taken that day would be entering a time in their life filled with hopes and dreams but instead are a constant reminder of pain and longing for the ones who lost them and an anniversary for the rest of America because shootings like this have become an uncomfortable normal. Vegas shooting isn’t even two years old, one of the biggest in history, and it too will become just the same as Sandyhook to most of America aside from the unfortunate families so unlucky to be affected by such a senseless act.

Political leaders need to stand up and take charge, no more talk, no more thoughts and prayers, no more of these heartbreaking shootings that we are becoming more and more desensitized to because of the sheer amount of them. 251 mass shootings in America this year.... 251!?!?!? Enough! It’s unbelievable to see America make no advancement in this issue when there is so much motivation and need to do so.

[Acey]

Further, I don't remember where I read it but I think it said only 6 Hispanics died in El Paso? If your whole motive for the shooting was hating immigrants, a Wal-Mart at midday seems a poor target. Seems like it's a convenient scapegoat to shift the argument away from guns.