[News] Flames buyout Michael Stone's contract after clearing waivers

[djsFlames]

It's true.

For 12th-14th forwards, and 6th-7th defencemen, you damn well better be paying those guys in the neighbourhood of the league minimum.

Paying 2-3.5 mil for these sort of players (I know the plan for Stone's usage changed right after that extension was signed) pretty much negates the strong negotiating on the big skill player contracts that you may have accomplished.

I'm an advocate of always having your best seasoned farm players filling out most of those positions. That or cheap players like Shlemko and Fantenberg are ideal to fill out the bottom of your roster. If a bottom of the roster role player requires more than about a mil and a half, honestly just move on.

You can cycle through kids and league minimum players fairly easily to find the right depth guys. Treliving should never pay more for replaceable skaters than he needs to.

[GioforPM]

I agree Stone's contract was too long and too rich. But that wasn't on the scouts, seeing as how Stone had already played a quarter season. I'm a little surprised, in hindsight, Tre didn't get a better deal seeing as Stone was super motivated to stay in Calgary (Calgary wife, new house, etc).

[Vinny01]

He will follow Smith and Neal to Tippet

[djsFlames]

2.5-2.75 AAV would've been palatable, and probably keeps him around past this offseason.

[GioforPM]

I guess TBF, at the the time of the signing, there was no reason to think there would be four good defencemen under 23 in the lineup, that Tkachuk would be commanding the type of salary he is going to get (the RFA skyrocket hadn't started) and Stone was likely expected to be a 4 for the entirety.

[theinfinitejar]

After reading that thread CHL deserves his victory lap.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I guess TBF, at the the time of the signing, there was no reason to think there would be four good defencemen under 23 in the lineup, that Tkachuk would be commanding the type of salary he is going to get (the RFA skyrocket hadn't started) and Stone was likely expected to be a 4 for the entirety.

One of our resident Canucklehead fans, Diane_Phaneuf totally called it in that thread. Kudos to him. I was one that thought it was a good deal.

Originally Posted by D_Phaneuf

Don't think this is a good move, Stone was servicable with Brodie but has a history of really struggling if hes not playing with a top pairing guy

the term on this could be a real problem too, if any of the young guys turn out to be decent they will be better than Stone quickly, and then you have a 7th guy making 3.5m

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Nelson

If they signed Tkachuk and Mangiapane for 8M and 1.2M, they could make it under the cap with 13F, 7D and 2G.

The more I think about this today, the more I'm convinced that the Flames will open with, and ride, a 22 man roster.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

One of our resident Canucklehead fans, Diane_Phaneuf totally called it in that thread. Kudos to him. I was one that thought it was a good deal.

Wow. Credit where it is due.

Or blind squirrel and nut

[David Struch]

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Tkachuk (6.75) - Backlund (5.35) - Bennett (2.55)
Mangiapane (1.0) - Ryan (3.125) - Frolik (4.3)
Lucic (5.25) - Dube (0.778) - Czarnik (1.25)
Jankowski (1.675)

Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.65)
Hanifin (4.95) - Hamonic (3.85)
Valimaki (.894) - Andersson (.755)
Kylington (.730)

Rittich (2.75)
Talbot (2.75)

Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Buyout: $2,666,667
Bonuses: $747,500
Cap Hit: $80,758,375
Cap Space: $741,625

[TheScorpion]

I think the only way that Tkachuk signs for 6.75 is if it's for one or two years.

I think the Flames should give him as much as is needed to ensure he signs for eight. It's always better to spend more on better players than for depth (see: Stone, Michael).

[Calgary4LIfe]

I didn't think that Stone contract was all that bad. Remember, the huge 'plus' of that deal was how Stone looked as a top 4 in Calgary next to Brodie. He looked good. It solidified that top 4.



So when the Flames acquired Hamonic, having Stone as the 5th guy made some sense as you knew it was only a matter of time before an injury struck the Flames. Having Stone made everyone feel better, and indeed when Hamonic got hurt and Stone stepped-up, it worked out.


The problem is that Stone simply got passed by the prospects - exactly what you wanted to see. The term on the contract was a hindrance - especially in hindsight as we saw Andersson and now Valimaki being able to play in the NHL and contribute, and Kylington seemingly at the NHL level as well now. You wouldn't be a smart man if you bet that at least 2 of your young defencemen would make the jump to the NHL level at this age.


Brouwer, Neal, Raymond (nobody mentioned him yet!), etc., those were the bad deals. Stone was 'ok'. But thanks to the above deals, as well as the kids jumping up, you suddenly have to buy out Stone.



I wish Stone the best. He played his best alongside Brodie, and for the most part, was a fairly effective in unspectacular defencemen. He didn't stand out most nights, and that is what you want from a defencemen with his skill-set. I would be shocked if he didn't get a couple of PTO's with contract offers after. He is NHL-level defencemen who CAN play top 4 minutes in a pinch as long as he has his health. Hope at least for that for him.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He will follow Smith and Neal to Tippet

God, I hope so. Very easy guy to play against imo.

[Gaskal]

When we made this signing,

-Valimaki had been freshly drafted
-Rasmus was doing well in the A, but still an unknown in the big leagues
-Kylington a little behind Phat Ras, but also in a similar mold

So I concur with C4L. It's just not a good bet to assume that 2 of the 3 would pan out at the time. I guess it's a damn good problem to have that all 3 look NHL caliber at this point, but all that we're hit with is a bit of a buyout penalty for our troubles... and of course the upcoming expansion draft where Kylington probably goes to a new home.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

and of course the upcoming expansion draft where Kylington probably goes to a new home.

Still two full seasons away but we could see the four young D overtake Giordano and force the Flames hand (4, 4, 1 scenario) to keep all four of 'em

Monahan
Gaudreau
Lindholm
Tkachuk

Valimaki
Hanafin
Andersson
Kylington

Rittich?

[kehatch]

This doesn't clear up enough cap. But it does mean that any deal involving Brodie, Hamonic, or Frolik doesn't have to be a straight cap dump which should improve value.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Tkachuk (6.75) - Backlund (5.35) - Bennett (2.55)
Mangiapane (1.0) - Ryan (3.125) - Frolik (4.3)
Lucic (5.25) - Dube (0.778) - Czarnik (1.25)
Jankowski (1.675)

Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.65)
Hanifin (4.95) - Hamonic (3.85)
Valimaki (.894) - Andersson (.755)
Kylington (.730)

Rittich (2.75)
Talbot (2.75)

Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Buyout: $2,666,667
Bonuses: $747,500
Cap Hit: $80,758,375
Cap Space: $741,625

...so if you can get Mangiapane down to 0.9, then you have a solid 7.5 to sign Tkachuck. Should be close to enough in my opinion. If Tkachuck requires $8M...then you need to dump Czarnik for a min wage player...

Personally I like what Czarnik adds, so I am hoping we can make it work without dropping him. However the drop off from Czarnik to Quine is not that big in my opinion...

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by kehatch

This doesn't clear up enough cap. But it does mean that any deal involving Brodie, Hamonic, or Frolik doesn't have to be a straight cap dump which should improve value.

Yup, this exactly. Treliving no longer needs to make a bad trade and give a good player away for a lesser return with Tkachuk's contract looming.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Yeah, I'm in the camp that Stone was a decent acquisition at the time. A string of bad luck and the kids being better than expected made him expendable.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

2.5-2.75 AAV would've been palatable, and probably keeps him around past this offseason.

The players and their agents keep pushing for salaries that they don't deserve... and that's a problem for sure... I know it's leaving money on the table, but it's really the right thing to do for your career (i.e. to take a lower salary - what you deserve, take less term and prove yourself). Lucic is not worth 6 million for example.... I love him at 1/2 that. The problem also lies on the GMs, it does take two to tango so to speak. Chiarelli, when he was in Edmonton is a great example - he reminds me of George on Seinfeld, a small man living in a BIG world and playing with someone else's money. If you notice, almost all the contracts he signed were at least 1 million too high, it's like he felt bigger and better by acting rich and giving everyone more - it pumped up his ego (just my impression anyhow).

Taking less works... the fans appreciate it and sponsorship contacts will come and that will supplement the difference. Just Imagine.... Lucic gets paid half as much... It something I'd get behind, it's a player I can support and a player who I'd go see when he's sponsoring some dealership or something -but - I've always loved that mean looking yellow mouth guard (why didn't he do orange up in Edmonton?).