[CP Story] Makings Sense of the Lucic Trade

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Only in your mind

What a ridiculous statement

Yeah 2nd overall team ... laughing stock.

Uh huh ...

Donkey I'm good with you hating it. It's a crappy player for crappy player trade.

The Flames were not going to buy Neal out (Haynes article pretty much confirms it), and they wanted the player gone. This was the option they found. The fit seems better to some of us for a bottom roster look, and they save some cap money.

But you have every right to your opinion.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

Sorry but I don't buy it. Much of this is predicated on "toughness", but in today's NHL "toughness" has been re-defined. I would argue a guy like Garnet Hathaway is just as "tough" as Lucic. He can hit, fight, and actually contributes. Lucic meanwhile, at 31 years old, has regressed hard and can't contribute anymore. And who is he going to fight?

The Flames should have just bought Neal out and kept Hathaway (He signed @ 1.5M AAV). That way they actually save cap space and are equally as "tough". Let alone the expansion draft...

How many fights did Lucic have last season? TWO (2)! The same number as Hathaway. Lucic is an anchor that cannot keep up in today's NHL and doesn't even have anyone left to fight. (And for the record last season he fought peluso and gabriel, neither of which are likely in the league next season...)

I'm really glad they didn't do both.

Lucic at 5.25 and Hathaway being twice what he's worth would have been a nightmare.

[My2Cents]

I still would be concerned with Neal’s attitude problems. I can see him start the season on McDavids wing, not able to keep up and get pulled off that line. If that happens what is his attitude going to be?

Rather have the player who knows and embraces his role. Even though he is grossly overpaid.

[カナダ人です]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm really glad they didn't do both.

Lucic at 5.25 and Hathaway being twice what he's worth would have been a nightmare.

You think 1.5 a season is twice what Hathaway is worth? You think he is only worth the absolute league minimum?

[neo45]

It’s pretty baffling how Neal managed to be so bad on a team that was clicking so well offensively. What the hell would he have done on the Gultzan Flames

Lucic will be better. He protects the puck better and might make Bennett and Tkachuk feel a few inches taller. He won’t be good, but he won’t be as bad as Neal.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by neo45

It’s pretty baffling how Neal managed to be so bad on a team that was clicking so well offensively. What the hell would he have done on the Gultzan Flames

Lucic will be better. He protects the puck better and might make Bennett and Tkachuk feel a few inches taller. He won’t be good, but he won’t be as bad as Neal.

If we get rid of Neal and bring in a physically imposing Lucic that puts up 35 points per year, and puts in even average effort, it's a big win.

[Erick Estrada]

One thing about Peters is that if you aren't helping the team you will be in the press box and it's going to be interesting to see when Lucic becomes a regular scratch (it's going to happen over the duration of his tenure as a Flame and it's only a matter of when) as I feel he's not going to play all 82 games next season even if healthy.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah 2nd overall team ... laughing stock.



Uh huh ...



Donkey I'm good with you hating it. It's a crappy player for crappy player trade.



The Flames were not going to buy Neal out (Haynes article pretty much confirms it), and they wanted the player gone. This was the option they found. The fit seems better to some of us for a bottom roster look, and they save some cap money.



But you have every right to your opinion.

Did I not just say exactly what you wrote here, apart from the fit?

They are both bad players and Neal would likely have been riding the pine just the same as Lucic will on a lot of nights. And Neal is probably going on to score a bunch of goals just from McDavid bouncing things off his ass. So right there it’s a bad deal. The Flames lost. And I get that it’s one that had to be made if Edwards told Treliving he was done paying for UFA mistakes not to play here.

I just don’t get all the rationalizing and “toughness” talk that now shows up in these discussions like it somehow might make the team better. It is not 2011 anymore and Lucic’s brand of toughness is no longer the norm. He is a $5 million pugilist and nothing more. There’s no need to try and “make sense” of anything.

The Flames has a disgruntled player and a cheap owner. So Treliving was backed into a corner. But he backed himself into that corner and should rightly be held to account for making a really bad series of moves.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

As for Lucic, why are so many people insistent that Neal was going to bounce back, but expecting Lucic to bounce back is foolish. Heck, as long as the Oilers don't spoon-feed Neal top line minutes and having McDavid bank pucks off his butt, I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL to see Lucic outscore Neal - AGAIN.

Lucic just did not look like he was trying many nights or an NHL level skater even. I'm hoping that this was just 3 years of toxic Oilers' environment taking its toll on Lucic, and he will bonce back.

The big loss here is that Neal was easier to buyout. If the owners had made it clear that wasn't happening, under any circumstances, then the deal makes sense for Calgary. Both Lucic and Neal are currently useless. Calgary is paying $500k/year less after this deal.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

You think 1.5 a season is twice what Hathaway is worth? You think he is only worth the absolute league minimum?

I think teams should aim to keep the fourth line as cheap as possible. The guy shot triple his previous two years in shooting percentage and will likely never see double digits again.

I like the player and I'd go 3 years at $1M, but you just can't have fourth liners making more than they need too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Did I not just say exactly what you wrote here, apart from the fit?

They are both bad players and Neal would likely have been riding the pine just the same as Lucic will on a lot of nights. And Neal is probably going on to score a bunch of goals just from McDavid bouncing things off his ass. So right there it’s a bad deal. The Flames lost. And I get that it’s one that had to be made if Edwards told Treliving he was done paying for UFA mistakes not to play here.

I just don’t get all the rationalizing and “toughness” talk that now shows up in these discussions like it somehow might make the team better. It is not 2011 anymore and Lucic’s brand of toughness is no longer the norm. He is a $5 million pugilist and nothing more. There’s no need to try and “make sense” of anything.

The Flames has a disgruntled player and a cheap owner. So Treliving was backed into a corner. But he backed himself into that corner and should rightly be held to account for making a really bad series of moves.

Then why are the Flames a laughing stock for moving a crap player for a crap player?

Doesn't need to be rationalized ... he's an imposing player. Last year he lit up Giordano in one game, drilled Hamonic in another, and then handled Peluso in the ensuing fight.

Hated all of that at the time, but there it was.

The guy was 7th in the league in hits last year.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think teams should aim to keep the fourth line as cheap as possible. The guy shot triple his previous two years in shooting percentage and will likely never see double digits again.

Well, Treliving just threw any chance at that over the next 4 years out the window.

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like the player and I'd go 3 years at $1M, but you just can't have fourth liners making more than they need too.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Then why are the Flames a laughing stock for moving a crap player for a crap player?

Doesn't need to be rationalized ... he's an imposing player. Last year he lit up Giordano in one game, drilled Hamonic in another, and then handled Peluso in the ensuing fight.

Hated all of that at the time, but there it was.

The guy was 7th in the league in hits last year.

They're a laughing stock because professional media, beat writers, and fans alike see the "unmoveable contract" moved and want to sensationalize things. You don't have to look very hard to see words like "perplexing," "head scratching," and "baffling" being thrown around, with jokes being made at the Flames' expense.

They were a laughing stock after Sutter's panic moves, they were a laughing stock for most of Feaster's tenure (especially after the ROR offer sheet), and they were a laughing stock under Brian "truculence" Burke. The Flames are no stranger to being the NHL's punchline and actually Treliving's first few years turned out to be a break from the norm. The only way people outside of Calgary give two hoots about the Calgary Flames are when they can use them to poke fun, and we're now back to that.

Kind of strage you would question me on this like it's my own personal opinion when there's plenty of evidence out there after just a few days that it's true.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

They're a laughing stock because professional media, beat writers, and fans alike see the "unmoveable contract" moved and want to sensationalize things. You don't have to look very hard to see words like "perplexing," "head scratching," and "baffling" being thrown around, with jokes being made at the Flames' expense.

They were a laughing stock after Sutter's panic moves, they were a laughing stock for most of Feaster's tenure (especially after the ROR offer sheet), and they were a laughing stock under Brian "truculence" Burke. The Flames are no stranger to being the NHL's punchline and actually Treliving's first few years turned out to be a break from the norm. The only way people outside of Calgary give two hoots about the Calgary Flames are when they can use them to poke fun, and we're now back to that.

Kind of strage you would question me on this like it's my own personal opinion when there's plenty of evidence out there after just a few days that it's true.

To be honest with you, Calgary is pretty much inconsequential to much of the world outside of Calgary and Edmonton. Not many teams in the NHL give a rip about Calgary or what Calgary does any more than any other team cares about Columbus or what Columbus does. The Flames aren’t a laughing stock because no body really pays that much attention to them. Maybe once the team becomes a serious contender or proves they can sustain some level of competitiveness over the years, then maybe people will think about Calgary. As it sits they are no different than any of the league’s middling to bottom performing franchises. Just not enough success to care about what they do or do not do.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

To be honest with you, Calgary is pretty much inconsequential to much of the world outside of Calgary and Edmonton. Not many teams in the NHL give a rip about Calgary or what Calgary does any more than any other team cares about Columbus or what Columbus does. The Flames aren’t a laughing stock because no body really pays that much attention to them. Maybe once the team becomes a serious contender or proves they can sustain some level of competitiveness over the years, then maybe people will think about Calgary. As it sits they are no different than any of the league’s middling to bottom performing franchises. Just not enough success to care about what they do or do not do.

This is true. I'm sure there were some raised eyebrows and chuckles out east when this was announced on Friday but today nobody outside of Alberta overly cars about this swap of players. I imagine if you polled a bunch of supposed hockey fans in Ontario to name the team that finished first in the Western Conference last season plenty wouldn't even know it was the Flames.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by neo45

It’s pretty baffling how Neal managed to be so bad on a team that was clicking so well offensively. What the hell would he have done on the Gultzan Flames

Lucic will be better. He protects the puck better and might make Bennett and Tkachuk feel a few inches taller. He won’t be good, but he won’t be as bad as Neal.

It’s actually pretty unbelievable that the team did so well while carrying that anchor Neal for 63 games. For virtually the entire season it felt like he was a drag on whatever line he played on. Poor Jankowski and Bennett probably could’ve had even better seasons had they played with a competent line-mate. There’s no doubt in my mind that Lucic will be a better replacement for Neal. His overall game is actually way more complete based on what I’ve seen.

[CanadaMatt]

Now when it suits you...

Originally Posted by Bingo

The guy was 7th in the league in hits last year.

Last year when it suited you...

Originally Posted by Bingo

I have never trusted hitting stats around the league and never will.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...1&postcount=23

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Now when it suits you...



Last year when it suited you...



https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...1&postcount=23

Wow, CanadaMatt with the impressive "gotcha"

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Now when it suits you...

Last year when it suited you...

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...1&postcount=23

Who cares?

Do you have an actual point?

Do you not think Lucic is a physical player who hits a lot?

[Enoch Root]

Also, both sentences can be valid - they aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't trust hitting stats much either. But at the same time, if the stats have you among the league leaders, you probably throw a lot of hits.