Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by stang

Yup might be, guess we’ll see.

Oh man, you're actually holding on to hope that he's still a useful NHLer? That's cute.

Ah, the offseason. What a time.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Redrum

I'll just leave this here...

Hope our penalty kill is good.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

I’m waiting for the Around the Leagues summary...

Yeah, where’s Gaskal?

[Snuffleupagus]

I found this to be interesting, We knew Neal was really bad but is this a indication Lucic isn't as bad as we think or the Oilers depth sucks more than we thought?

Flames (14 forwards with 200+ minutes)

James Neal was
12th in CF%
13th in SF%
13th in GF%
13th in xGF%
13th in SCF%
12th in HDCF%
5th in offensive zone starts


Oilers (15 forwards with 200+ minutes)

Milan Lucic was
4th in CF%
5th in SF%
7th in GF%
3rd in xGF%
4th in SCF%
4th in HDCF%
12th in offensive zone starts

[djsFlames]

Cloned

But on a serious note, Connor probably believes he can turn Neal into a 30 goal scorer again. If this is true, Holland just acquired a top line forward for Milan Lucic.

"On a serious note"

I was wrong, we do need an ATL report for this.

[shogged]

james neal will be better next year because you can guarantee hes getting top 6 minutes

[stang]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

"On a serious note"

I was wrong, we do need an ATL report for this.

To be fair im not on HF

[Ped]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Oh man, you're actually holding on to hope that he's still a useful NHLer? That's cute.

Ah, the offseason. What a time.

Isn't that what 90 percent of this thread is, but for Lucic?

[stang]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Oh man, you're actually holding on to hope that he's still a useful NHLer? That's cute.

Ah, the offseason. What a time.

85% of CP loved him a year ago.

[Strange Brew]

So the conditional 3rd basically comes to the Flames if Neal returns to the player we thought we had signed a year ago. Why isn’t that much more than a 3rd round pick?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by stang

85% of CP loved him a year ago.

And the few very vocal ones that were skeptical and said it was a bad contract turned out to be right.

He was already falling off in other areas apart from his shooting going into that overpayment last summer, but then his shot went last season too, which everyone here was at least banking on, and that pretty much killed any chance of him contributing to the team in any way

You could say, maybe it's confidence..maybe it's a SC hangover..but there was no sign of anything there as the months went on and playoffs came. He just showed nothing, start to finish. No sign of even coming on at the end, he actually got worse when it mattered.

[PaperBagger'14]

The best case scenario I can find from this trade is that Lucic's back issues get him diagnosed as no longer able to play and we get out from his cap hit.

[868904]

I remember last Summer, everyone was talking about how effective Tom wilson was for the Caps in the Cup championship. How rare that type of player was.

Then everyone was shocked at the contract the Caps gave him.

With the retention, Lucic’s contract is pretty much on par with Wilson’s.

I know Wilson had a great season last year statistically but prior to that, and prior to signing his big contract, his career high was 35 points.

I know Wilson is younger and will outplay and outproduce Lucic for the remainder of their contracts, but these really are a rare type of player. In fact the only other guy in the league like this is probably Nick Ritchie.

I think if Lucic can get to 35 points, throw his 200 plus hits, beat up some guys, and be an impact player in the playoffs, his cap hit really isn’t that bad. I don’t think these goals are really that out of reach.

If Wilson was a UFA last year, I think the Flames would have offered him what the Caps gave him. Lucic isn’t as good as Wilson now, so the Flames are paying a premium but like I said, these kind of players are like unicorns, they are extremely rare and in short supply and that’s why they cost this much.

Just another perspective.

[stang]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

And the few very vocal ones that were skeptical and said it was a bad contract turned out to be right.

He was already falling off in other areas apart from his shooting going into that overpayment last summer, but then his shot went last season too, which everyone here was at least banking on, and that pretty much killed any chance of him contributing to the team in any way

You could say, maybe it's confidence..maybe it's a SC hangover..but there was no sign of anything there as the months went on and playoffs came. He just showed nothing, start to finish. No sign of even coming on at the end, he actually got worse when it mattered.

Pretty sure you were one of the 85% who loved him

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So the conditional 3rd basically comes to the Flames if Neal returns to the player we thought we had signed a year ago. Why isn’t that much more than a 3rd round pick?

It’s not just the player, it’s the differential

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

Huh? Do you just make this stuff up? Lol he had better seasons point wise and goal wise before he played with Iggy and I don't even have to look at stats or do research to know this.

My apologies his season with Iggy was his best since the lockout, 59 points vs 62 point career best

An immaterial difference to my point that playing with slower players yielded relative career bests

And given the 59/61/62 point seasons that define Lucic's career top 3 seasons, my bet is you did in fact have to look that up

I hope PS gets that AHL team

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by stang

Pretty sure you were one of the 85% who loved him

I was. And I was wrong AF!

Just as the fans on HFOilers parading and celebrating will be wrong...AF.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I was. And I was wrong AF!

Just as the fans on HFOilers parading and celebrating will be wrong...AF.

What a bizarre stance by the guy you are responding to. The 85% who ‘loved him’ and were wrong AF had much better reason to like him at that point in time than anyone reasonably should now.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Do you really think Tre gave up on him easily and that he didn’t know the fallout this would cause? Do you not think it’s more to do with Neal’s mind numbing, pride swallowing siege, both on and off the ice that finally forced Tre hand.

If you want to be upset, be upset at James and his over confident swagger on this team last year that reeked of troy tulowitzki “do you know who I am?”.

His body language had, “what are you going to do get rid of me?” written all over it,

YES, Yes we are Real Deal.

No, I’m upset at both.

Neal for his #### play and Treliving for not finding value.

For ####s sake, if Neal returns to his 25g normal self we get a 3rd rounder. I’m amazed that Tre couldn’t get more from a conditional clause than a ####ing third round pick.

I understand the logic of getting Lucic, but I fail to see the value work out.

There MUST have been other issues with Neal, perhaps he hated Peters or Monahan overdid his toasts, I don’t know.

But don’t tell me the trade is fair value, Neal was one season removed from “a great FA signing”.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It’s not just the player, it’s the differential

I get that. But it’s established Lucic even at his retained salary has extreme negative value. So if Neal ends up being what they thought he was12 months ago, that is a gargantuan differential.

I think it’s unlikely but sure seems like the sweetener is pretty light here.