[Rumour] Free agent courting period news and rumors

[ForeverFlameFan]

The minute you trade for Stone is the minute you don't have the opportunity to sign Tkachuk. Either that or you are going to have to pay even more assets to trade off Neal for cap space and then some.

Treliving was smart to not give up what Ottawa was wanting.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I guess I find it odd when a mod thanks a post that is dismissive and condescending but maybe I misread it.

I am both a mod and a poster
When I thank a post it’s because I agree with it
Let’s not make this place so combative that people are even trying to interpret thanks. That’s no fun for everyone

[ForeverFlameFan]

Man everyone gets super sensitive during the offseason. It's one reason why I rarely post here during this time.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I am both a mod and a poster
When I thank a post it’s because I agree with it
Let’s not make this place so combative that people are even trying to interpret thanks. That’s no fun for everyone

The not combative part certainly gets my thanks.

[dammage79]

Sounds like the Knights are bringing Engelland back.

The Golden Knights are close to bringing Deryk Engelland back. Still ironing out the details on bonuses.

https://twitter.com/JesseGranger_/st...414008321?s=09

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

The minute you trade for Stone is the minute you don't have the opportunity to sign Tkachuk. Either that or you are going to have to pay even more assets to trade off Neal for cap space and then some.

Treliving was smart to not give up what Ottawa was wanting.

There was an opportunity cost to not moving Neal at the deadline and that cost has been paid when the organization made him a healthy scratch for the most important game if the year.

I think there may have been a market for Neal between December and February 25th if the flames sweetened the deal appropriately.

I think that market has now dried up and the flames are stuck with him either to play him or buy him out.

Opportunity cost is something I think the NHL on a very fundamental level does not understand at all.

If treliving can move Neal for less than 3 first round picks without salary retained I'll give him a key to my heart.

Just don't think those deals are out there anymore.

[cannon7]

So Mark Stone returned Erik Brannstrom, Oscar Lindberg and a 2020 2nd with a 8-year $9.5M contract effectively signed. What will a four year younger Mitch Marner return assuming he's agreeing to a ~$10M long-term deal? Assuming the Leafs are intent on re-signing him, wonder how much of Nylander's contract they'd eat to move him.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sounds like the Knights are bringing Engelland back.

The Golden Knights are close to bringing Deryk Engelland back. Still ironing out the details on bonuses.

https://twitter.com/JesseGranger_/st...414008321?s=09

Being able to pay a veteran leader, who brings toughness and can play a regular shift on D around $1 million/year is one hell of a good deal for Vegas. And no acquisition cost.

[cannon7]

Even if the Flames eat $2M of his salary? Highly doubt there is no market for a $3.75M Neal.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

There was an opportunity cost to not moving Neal at the deadline and that cost has been paid when the organization made him a healthy scratch for the most important game if the year.

I think there may have been a market for Neal between December and February 25th if the flames sweetened the deal appropriately.

I think that market has now dried up and the flames are stuck with him either to play him or buy him out.

Opportunity cost is something I think the NHL on a very fundamental level does not understand at all.

If treliving can move Neal for less than 3 first round picks without salary retained I'll give him a key to my heart.

Just don't think those deals are out there anymore.

Really? Who would have gone for him? Legitimately asking. I don't think that there was a market for Neal, no one wants to take on his contract when he just barely started his 5 year deal. And, say good bye to signing any kind of UFA in Calgary if we trade Neal halfway through the season when we just signed him. It looks bad on a team when you do something like that.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If you are feeling misunderstood it is probably because you need to communicate better. It would also help you tremendously to abandon the condescension. In any event, this is how I understood your point, but I—along with numerous other posters, it would seem—simply disagreed with what you were trying to argue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You disagreed with what I argued? Then why did you (almost verbatim) say the exact same thing I did a few post after this one?

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Being able to pay a veteran leader, who brings toughness and can play a regular shift on D around $1 million/year is one hell of a good deal for Vegas. And no acquisition cost.

There never is an acquisition cost when you re sign your own player.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by rhino

There never is an acquisition cost when you re sign your own player.

I thought that was obvious. He has been a great deal for the Knights since day one and they have never had to commit $’s or term to the guy.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sounds like the Knights are bringing Engelland back.

The Golden Knights are close to bringing Deryk Engelland back. Still ironing out the details on bonuses.

https://twitter.com/JesseGranger_/st...414008321?s=09

Really smart signing, Vegas is lucky to have this guy as a cheap annual option who can play top 4 minutes.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I believe tagging room restrictions prevented them from signing stone to an extension right away (he signed within hours if being traded to Vegas).

I think when Tre mentions they didn't want to do a deal for a rental, that is what he is referring to. Stone would've been a rental acquisition because the flames couldn't sign him to an extension without subtracting Neal's contract, and treliving wasn't prepared to move valimaki for a rental.

To fix the cap situation the flames needed to send back Mike stone or Neal and Ottawa charged a premium for capspace.

Vegas sent $0.00 and got the player.

Tre said Ottawas ask was valimaki, Andersson, 1st for stone.

That is more than twice as valuable as the Vegas package.

It just doesn't pass a basic smell test that that was the ask unless there was another, MAJOR component to the transaction; like taking on 19 million in salary liability.

How does brannstrom and a 2nd get it done where Andersson and a 1st doesn't? Doesn't make any sense.

It was Andersson OR Valimaki...not and. Treliving would not give up either of them + a 1st. I followed the Stone sweepstakes very closely and I never once saw mention of both being the asking price. That's just insane and never happened.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by CF84

It was Andersson OR Valimaki...not and. Treliving would not give up either of them + a 1st. I followed the Stone sweepstakes very closely and I never once saw mention of both being the asking price. That's just insane and never happened.

I think if you go back to that there was a quote that the ask was both.

At any rate, Tree wasn't even doing 1 of them let alone 2 so the point is moot. The Stone trade they explored was too rich for their liking and in hindsight not pulling the trigger was the right move. And the mental gymnastics displayed in this thread in the last 47 hours lends itself to that.

Pull the trigger for Stone, sign him to the same deal Vegas did, you're left with 7m to work with roughly, with many holes to fill. Even the best dumpster divers would find icing a roster challenging in this scenario.

[Vinny01]

Any word on who is interested in Dzingel?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CF84

It was Andersson OR Valimaki...not and. Treliving would not give up either of them + a 1st. I followed the Stone sweepstakes very closely and I never once saw mention of both being the asking price. That's just insane and never happened.

Brian Burke confirmed a few days later the ask from Ottawa:

Originally Posted by transplant99

So Burke was just on the morning show and stated that an NHL GM told him the ask for Stone from Calgary was..(i think i heard this correctly)

1st
conditional 1st on resigning
Andersson
Valimaki

and it would take 11M per to equal the 9.5 Vegas paid cause of tax differences...

I think the discrepancy between what Ottawa wanted from Calgary and what they received from VGK for Stone was primarily about timing.

We know that the Flames and Ottawa were deep into talks about Stone, and that talks fell through quite early. If I remember correctly the Flames were out already before midnight on 24 February.

We also know that the Flames considered Valimaki a deal-breaker:

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Friedman on 960 also thinks the only reason the Flames didn't get Stone was because they were unwilling to part with Valimaki.

We know further that VGK became a front runner once they put Brannstrom on the table the morning of 25 February:

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Friedman on 960 says Brannstrom was the best prospect offered to the Sens. When Vegas offered him up this morning they instantly became the favourite to land Stone.

The timing of these events suggests that at some point between the time Calgary pulled out of negotiations and the actual trade—which was consummated at the last minute; about 20 mins before the deadline—the asking price substantially dropped. I suspect that when Calgary pulled out VGK decided to up their own offer with Brannstrom, which by the early morning became the best deal on the table. I think Calgary probably offered:

· 1st
· conditional 1st
· Andersson

Ottawa responded with + Valimaki, and Calgary said no and pulled out, which left Ottawa in a terrible position with a time crunch and a smaller pool of trading partners. They ultimately made the deal with VGK because it was the best of the deals that was still on the table, but clearly one that was substantially lower than then framework deal they were working off of the night before with Calgary.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CF84

It was Andersson OR Valimaki...not and. Treliving would not give up either of them + a 1st. I followed the Stone sweepstakes very closely and I never once saw mention of both being the asking price. That's just insane and never happened.

At one point the ask was Valimaki/Bennett/1st...but that was a couple weeks ahead of the deadline.

The day OF the deadline, i remember reading it was Valimaki/Andersson/1st.

But there was stuff flying around all over the place that day, so who knows.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by transplant99

At one point the ask was Valimaki/Bennett/1st...but that was a couple weeks ahead of the deadline.

The day OF the deadline, i remember reading it was Valimaki/Andersson/1st.

But there was stuff flying around all over the place that day, so who knows.

Doesn't really matter...Brunstrom was more highly sought after than either, so it would have required both. If we are still on the originally arguement involving Neal. I think Vegas still makes the deal and tries to dump him with picks if necessary. Let's not kid ourselves...if we had the slightly better prospect (and associated pick depth) that Vegas has we would have made the deal also. In addition...Vegas has been in need of a center point or star to market. They chased Karlsson for that reason and would have chased any other star name harder than we would have.