Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I like the idea of getting Kadri for Brodie. And then just have 3 solid two way centers. Say what you want about Kadri being a dirty player, the guy cares a lot, is on an amazing contract and is a great two way player. Would also trade Monahan for Coutourier.

Johnny Couturier Bennett
Tkachuk Backlund Lindholm
Mangiapane Kadri ????
Dube Ryan Hathaway

I don't think you're getting Kadri for Brodie straight up. Kadri is a solid two way C with term on a good contract. That alone means the leafs aren't likely going to move him.

Brodie on the other hand has one year left and has been a disaster for the better part of the past 3 years now.

I would trade Brodie for 2 second round picks. You can take the picks and cap relief and move on. Anderson will slide into his spot with Gio nicely.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Igottago

In order to learn about the playoffs, you need to be playing playoff hockey. There are lessons to be learned from winning a round or two and coming up short in tough battles against good teams.
The Flames can't even get in long enough to learn any of those lessons. They pretty much get to the dance and can't wait to leave. The only lesson learned this playoff is that the team is nowhere near good enough to compete at this time of year, and changes need to happen.

Yeah. I agree with this.

I don’t buy the crap about needing to learn how to lose in order to be able to win. Maybe when you are talking about coming up short in round 3 or 4, but otherwise that is just an excuse for losers.

Also, another learning they had is that a team that is well prepared for everything you tend to do will be able to take the puck away from you at will.

Coaching staff should have learned that you have to adjust to your opponent, who is tailoring their game plan to defeat you, game to game.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

This team is now 2-12 in it's last 14 playoff games. How to cure the rot???

1) I think we have to get rid of the gutless and lazy

Monahan, Janko, Neal

How does Johnny not make your gutless and lazy list but Monahan does? I noticed more poor plays from Gaudreau frankly. They seem pretty close in the gutless category.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Trading Johnny would be a huge mistake. He wasnt great this series but he also wasnt the problem.

Johnny was one of our biggest problems that series IMO. I choose not to blame Monahan for Gaudreau's no show. Gaudreau is our biggest star and he was terrible in the series.

Very discouraging play by some of our top players.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

How does Johnny not make your gutless and lazy list but Monahan does? I noticed more poor plays from Gaudreau frankly. They seem pretty close in the gutless category.

There's a difference between playing bad and playing gutless. Gaudreau had some bad giveaways and dumb decisions, but he was at least trying. No amount of heart can overcome being literally the weakest player in the NHL. I'm not convinced Monahan even broke a sweat.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Johnny was one of our biggest problems that series IMO. I choose not to blame Monahan for Gaudreau's no show. Gaudreau is our biggest star and he was terrible in the series.

Very discouraging play by some of our top players.

Johnny's problem was execution. Obviously he needs to be more clutch. If he scores that penalty shot or breakaway we might be gearing up for another game tomorrow. But he was at least noticeable and trying to create opportunities.

You can't blame Johnny for Monahan being invisible however, unless you think its Gaudreau's duty to literally do all the work and bank pucks in off Monahan's backside. Even though Johnny wasn't good, he was by far better than Monahan in terms of overall compete.

[Manhattanboy]

I think Monahan could get moved. Just a feeling.

[afc wimbledon]

I hope none of you are managing your stocks this way, selling off your assets at a low point and looking to buy other assets at a high!!

[CGY12]

Not a fan of Kadri at all. If/when they trade Brodie, the player returning needs to address at least 1 of the 3:

1) Speed
2) Lethal Shot
3) Drives play (zone entry/dictates pace)

Kadri doesn't address any of those in my opinion. Living in Toronto I see a lot of Kadri, I think his numbers are inflated playing on that #1 pp unit with the likes of Marner, Mathews and Reilly.

Maybe Brodie isn't valuable enough to acquire any of those needs but I'd be interested in seeing if somehow Hoffman can be acquired for Brodie. The PP sorely needs a shooting threat. It'll open up space for others.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah. I agree with this.

I don’t buy the crap about needing to learn how to lose in order to be able to win. Maybe when you are talking about coming up short in round 3 or 4, but otherwise that is just an excuse for losers.

Also, another learning they had is that a team that is well prepared for everything you tend to do will be able to take the puck away from you at will.

Coaching staff should have learned that you have to adjust to your opponent, who is tailoring their game plan to defeat you, game to game.

I'm not saying it's an exact science but I think there is some merit to learning from losing.

Historically a number of teams suffered playoff disappointments in the first 2 rounds before winning it all.

I'm not making excuses I just don't want to blow things up.

[Frequitude]

Gaudreau for Stamkos.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

So your argument is the players didn’t want it? That might be true I’m a game in the middle of January. But you can’t look at the frustration they showed on the bench and say they didn’t want it.

They dominated the last two periods of game 1. Game 2 they were outplayed by the makainnon line but won the rest of the matchups. It was much closer than you are giving them credit for.

They never showed the determination, urgency and desire necessary to win in the playoffs. Frustration on the bench is great and all but their play on the ice showed they didn't want it enough. If you want to win you'll compete, skate, hit, take hits, etc. A large chunk of our forward group showed a very evident lack of heart and lack of desire.

This is what has people worried. This is what has people questioning our stars and talking about rot. It wasn't that they merely got unlucky. We got excellent goaltending but half the skaters forgot to show up for the most important games of the season.

How could anybody watch that and not be worried about the core? Which young players stepped up? Which players elevated their games? Which players had their games regress? Answer those questions and you should be worried.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I hope none of you are managing your stocks this way, selling off your assets at a low point and looking to buy other assets at a high!!

Sometimes you have to eat your losses and get out before your assets become completely worthless.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I like Brad treliving, but this is his team. It's asset poor because he spent the assets. It's cap hell because he spent the cap.

The Flames are not asset poor. This is the richest the Flames have been in assets in 25 years.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I just don't get why majority of the fan base wants to blow this team up and go back into rebuild mode when we literally just came out of one. I didn't realize this was our only shot at the cup and now we're packing in the bags on this team that played some of the best Flames hockey in 30 years.

That's a misrepresentation of what people are saying. I don't think anybody wants to blow the team up and go back into a rebuild. Trading a core player does not mean we're rebuilding.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Gaudreau for Stamkos.

Gaudreau for Point. I rather trade the 26 year old for the 23 year than the 29 year old especially since Point is from Calgary.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I just don't think we get better by trading Monahan. We don't really need futures.

Why would you assume he'd be traded for futures? That's a move a rebuilding team would make and we're not rebuilding. If we trade Gaudreau and Monahan its not going to be for picks/prospects it will be for high profile young stars just like Monahan and Gaudreau are.

[Erick Estrada]

The Flames need to be better up the middle. Monahan and Backlund as your top two centers isn't going to get it done ever. Ideally you would bump them both back a spot but elite centers don't grow on trees. Depending on how the Stars fare in the playoffs I would target Seguin in a trade involving Monahan as part of a return but I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Duchene and move out salary on the back end such as Brodie. I wouldn't rule anything out with Treliving and I just can't see him happy with the performance of his two top centers in this series.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Gaudreau for Point. I rather trade the 26 year old for the 23 year than the 29 year old especially since Point is from Calgary.

Johnny is a winger. It would leave us really thin at wing. I suppose Bennett could be moved to the wing, though...

[Sylvanfan]

Take a week to digest some things and try to figure out what can be done too add that extra element or if you can.

The biggest concern is that there is 7.25 million tied up in Brouwer and Neal for 3 more years. Thats going to be hard to cover up.

Hope for yhe NHL to opt out of the CBA and get compliance buyouts to fix the bulk of that problem.