Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

See previous answer.

And it's wrong. No reporter of note said Frolik refused to waive.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Monahan is clearly injured. Why keep throwing him under the bus? Johnny was just as useless

The guys on 960 said there were no injuries of note on team

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

And it's wrong. No reporter of note said Frolik refused to waive.

I thought Minnesota didn’t get it to the league on time?

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Don't Oiler up the trading of Sean Monahan. Everything the organization says, until they actually trade him, should reinforce that Monahan is a core player and we expect him to be a Flame for life.

He puts up great numbers. While there is a Gaudreau effect, he's also the second best offensive player on this team.

But they aren't a young team anymore. This was their third post-season, and they had all the ingredients. The top line did not have another gear, and it's fair to ask at this point if it's because Monahan doesn't have another gear.

I think it will come out that Sean was hurt at some point after Christmas. He was not the same player in the second half of the season.

His unwillingness to engage physically is really difficult to ignore/excuse after a series like this.

I still consider the team young. Obviously some older guys, but that was Hanifins, Anderssons, Jankowskis, Lindholms, Mangiapanes, Hathaway’s, Ryan’s, Valimakis first playoffs, and you got other guys like Tkachuk etc where you can hardly consider 2017 any playoff experience.

I understand Monahan wasn’t good enough in the playoffs, at all. I really don’t think we can write him off yet though, I still believe he can be a clutch guy in the future

[djsFlames]

We need another center with top six, if not top line skill, first and foremost.

Push Backlund and Monahan down your chart and you set yourself up for more success, cause while it's all fine and dandy in the regular season, in the playoffs they look to be playing one spot up from where they should be.

Much easier said than done though. Can you sign Duchene?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I thought Minnesota didn’t get it to the league on time?

yes

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

We need another center with top six, if not top line skill, first and foremost.

Push Backlund and Monahan down your chart and you set yourself up for more success, cause while it's all fine and dandy in the regular season, in the playoffs they look to be playing one spot up from where they should be.

Much easier said than done though. Can you sign Duchene?

I doubt Duchene leaves Ohio after this run. They are probably going to lose Panariin so they’ll be all in on Duchene.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

I still consider the team young. Obviously some older guys, but that was Hanifins, Anderssons, Jankowskis, Lindholms, Mangiapanes, Hathaway’s, Ryan’s, Valimakis first playoffs, and you got other guys like Tkachuk etc where you can hardly consider 2017 any playoff experience.

I understand Monahan wasn’t good enough in the playoffs, at all. I really don’t think we can write him off yet though, I still believe he can be a clutch guy in the future

The only top player with no playoff experience was Lindholm, and he was the best of the three.

Hanifin was arguably the best Flames D in the whole series. He's a stud, and we're incredibly fortunate Treliving was able to upgrade Hamilton into Hanifin.

Jankowski was a dud, but everyone else brought it. 3M was good at points, but they got overwhelmed by MacKinnon.

The goaltending was good enough to win. No two ways about it.

This playoff failure falls at the feet of Gaudreau and Monahan.

This series also tells me Tkachuk's number should start with a 6, not an 8. He doesn't deserve to make more than Gaudreau.

[codynw]

The roster is close. You don't put up a 107 point season without being pretty good, but I think the team needs another top 6 forward or two to help take the pressure off of Gaudreau/Monahan. Find a way to offload Neal, Stone and Frolik, and maybe even Jankowski, then sign Duchene (hopefully he leaves Columbus, probably less likely if they go on a run), trade Brodie and/or picks for a RW that can score goals, ideally someone a little bigger with some GRIT. Also need a new starting goalie, because Rittich wasn't the answer, and I do not want Smith back, despite this playoff performance.



Gaudreau / Duchene / Lindholm
Tkachuk / Monahan / ????
Bennett / Backlund / ????
Mangiapane / Ryan / Hathaway


Giordano / Andersson
Valimaki / Hamonic
Hanifin / ????


????
Rittich


Depending on how those holes are filled, that looks like a great team.

[MelBridgeman]

I don't think there is anything to cure - what is needed is growth - still a young inexperienced team. It's really hard to change what your are doing when it was pretty successful but these guys learned a valuable lesson. My expectations of this team is that it's a multi year process. Tweaks here and there but let this team mature more.

For most of the last 4 games this team spent so much time chasing in the defensive zone it resulted in zero transition game. When pucks were moved out of the defensive zone they had to change the lines or there was little attack due to exhaustion

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

You don't win when it matters when your top 3 centers are Monahan - Backlund - Janko.

Simply put Backlund needs to be the #3 C (and would be the best 3rd line C in the league) and at worst you need to add a 1b type center to form a 1-2 punch with Monahan.

As we're not gonna be drafting high and aren't a prime UFA destination, the best and maybe only way to get that C is by trading Johnny.

A trade centered around Johnny for Couturier makes a lot of sense.

And then go hard after Hall as a Johnny replacement - maybe a deal centered around Hanifin + a 1st.

Couturier - Monahan - Backlund down the middle with Hall, Tkachuk, Lindholm as your top wingers and Bennett, Dube, Mangiapane rounding out the top 9 is much better than the current forward group.

Don't trade Hanifin. He's the Gio replacement. The guy's 22 years old, and he plays virtually mistake free hockey.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by codynw

The roster is close. You don't put up a 107 point season without being pretty good, but I think the team needs another top 6 forward or two to help take the pressure off of Gaudreau/Monahan. Find a way to offload Neal, Stone and Frolik, then sign Duchene (hopefully he leaves Columbus, probably less likely if they go on a run), trade Brodie and/or picks for a RW that can score goals, ideally someone a little bigger with some GRIT. Also need a new starting goalie, because Rittich wasn't the answer, and I do not want Smith back, despite this playoff performance.



Gaudreau / Duchene / Lindholm
Tkachuk / Monahan / ????
Bennett / Backlund / ????
Mangiapane / Ryan / Hathaway


Giordano / Andersson
Valimaki / Hamonic
Hanifin / ????


????
Rittich


Depending on how those holes are filled, that looks like a great team.

There is no hope in offloading Neal. After this year combined with the fact Treliving gave him more term then anyone else offered and we are going to have to eat that for the full length.

[Husky]

Looking back too bad the RoR offer sheet didnt go through. Heck of a playerand Exactly what the flames need

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

There was a stat before seasons end that our record against non playoff teams was amazing but not very good against playoff teams. I'll have to search for this but it is true.

Flames beat tons of playoff teams in the regular season...almost all of them including sweeping the Avs

[TheScorpion]

Jankowski + Stone for Kapanen is more lopsided than the broken Titanic

anyway here's how I would do it

- Johnny Gaudreau to Florida for Vincent Trocheck, Owen Tippett, and Aleksi Heponiemi
- T.J. Brodie and Austin Czarnik to Toronto for Kasperi Kapanen and Garrett Sparks
- James Neal, David Rittich, Mark Jankowski, and the 26th-overall pick to Arizona for Antti Raanta, Christian Fischer, and Pierre-Oliver Joseph
- Michael Frolik to Minnesota for a third-round pick
- Michael Stone to Ottawa for Magnus Paajarvi
- Sign Ben Chiarot to a two-year deal

Tkachuk - Trocheck - Lindholm
Bennett - Monahan - Kapanen
Dube - Backlund - Mangiapane
Hathaway - Ryan - Fischer
Paajarvi

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Chiarot
Kylington

Raanta
Sparks

[TheAlpineOracle]

I still can’t comprehend how bad Neal was. He was ten steps behind the play all year. The guy used to be one of the dirtiest players in the league and I don’t think I saw him do a single greasy thing all year.

[smithtofuhr86]

Let the CPuck fire everyone, hate everyone, trade everyone begin! Absolute disappointment no doubt, but let’s take a deep breath, step back and logically think about this team & the good they did plus progression (Valimaki, Rasmus, Rittich) this season and what things may look like on the go forward. Edmonton would love a first round loss!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There is no hope in offloading Neal. After this year combined with the fact Treliving gave him more term then anyone else offered and we are going to have to eat that for the full length.

Or they buy him out. Unlike Lucic, it does actually benefit us. Cap savings of 3.8M for the next four years, and a $1.9M penalty for four years after that.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night.

[browna]

Frolik and Brodie are in contract years. Frolik tries hard but spins wheels. Brodie gets extended cases of the yips.
Jankowski on the bubble. Penalty killers need to do more 5 on 5,see Lindholm, and even Hathaway.
Bennett has raised his value and there is always the debate about if he is going to reach where the Flames need him to be with the other players on the roster.
Tkachuk, certainly in the playoffs but even regular seaosn, took a turn and didn't really seem to have that same chemisty as last year with Frolik and Backlund. Hopefully this L below average playoffs for him takes some money away for the re sign.

So I can see Brodie, Janko, Frolik gone. Who knows on Bennett. I don't think Mono or JG go anywhere, you're building around them.
Do you sell high on a guy like Backlund with 5 more years on a contract before it becomes an issue.
Regardless, the 2nd and 3rd line have to be redone and some of the parts aren't yet in the Flames organization as I don't see anyone else making the jump from the farm at forward.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Or they buy him out. Unlike Lucic, it does actually benefit us. Cap savings of 3.8M for the next four years, and a $1.9M penalty for four years after that.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night.

Maybe a compliance buyout when they negotiate the next CBA? That would be a great out!