[Trade] Mark Stone (8yrs, $9.5mil AAV) to Vegas for Erik Brannstrom, Lindberg, 2020 2nd

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Where did you hear it was $11M he asked for from Calgary?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Read the post directly above yours, logical conclusion.

[Sylvanfan]

It is fascinating how Vegas was able to add Statsny/Pacioretty/Stone this year yet they still have a surplus of picks in the next two drafts.

This just shows that come expansion draft time expose the 11th best skater or backup goalie on your roster and be done. Too many teams panicked and gave these guys way too much ammunition.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

It is fascinating how Vegas was able to add Statsny/Pacioretty/Stone this year yet they still have a surplus of picks in the next two drafts.

This just shows that come expansion draft time expose the 11th best skater or backup goalie on your roster and be done. Too many teams panicked and gave these guys way too much ammunition.

Yeah, but they paid for the privilege and it's great for the league. In the past, new teams would languish for years, which makes it difficult to build a strong fan base. In Vegas, they have some great roots established for a strong franchise, and that is good for the league.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

It is fascinating how Vegas was able to add Statsny/Pacioretty/Stone this year yet they still have a surplus of picks in the next two drafts.

This just shows that come expansion draft time expose the 11th best skater or backup goalie on your roster and be done. Too many teams panicked and gave these guys way too much ammunition.

And they've got the cap space to go add Karlsson July 1 if they want to.

It's gonna suck to lose whoever we lose, but we can only lose them once. No need to compound the situation.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, but they paid for the privilege and it's great for the league. In the past, new teams would languish for years, which makes it difficult to build a strong fan base. In Vegas, they have some great roots established for a strong franchise, and that is good for the league.

As much as it sucks for Flames fans for a new divisional rival become immediately good it doesn't do a lot of good for the league to put a new franchise in a market like LV that languishes in mediocrity for years as it did with the Jackets. Even if they stumble in the coming years they have built up a pretty good fanbase.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

And they've got the cap space to go add Karlsson July 1 if they want to.

It's gonna suck to lose whoever we lose, but we can only lose them once. No need to compound the situation.

Not really, they are up to 82 million next year if you check cap friendly. They will probably lose him.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Not really, they are up to 82 million next year if you check cap friendly. They will probably lose him.

I think he was talking Erik not William.

How does it work with Clarkson? He's been on IR all year and likely will next year. Do they need to be cap compliant with his cap hit for one day or can he stay on LTIR the whole time? Teams often wait to sign the tryout guys for a day that they need to put guys on LTIR. But I can't remember if guys like Clarkson or Hossa count on that one day after camp before guys injured in camp can go on LTIR.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

It is fascinating how Vegas was able to add Statsny/Pacioretty/Stone this year yet they still have a surplus of picks in the next two drafts.

This just shows that come expansion draft time expose the 11th best skater or backup goalie on your roster and be done. Too many teams panicked and gave these guys way too much ammunition.

Many on here criticized their GM for taking too many futures instead of trying to put a good team on the ice.

It looks like he did both.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Toonage]

Yes but let's not treat this like it was part of some grand design, that it was expected to play out this way. It wasn't.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Where did you hear it was $11M he asked for from Calgary?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Burke...based on taxes he would have to pay in Calgary Vs. Vegas.

History too, a team like Calgary is gonna have to outbid for a UFA. Stone didn't have to sign just because he was traded.

Vegas is a top UFA destination...I always hate the "why didn't Calgary sign him to that deal" type posts, the price is higher in places like Calgary

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Yes but let's not treat this like it was part of some grand design, that it was expected to play out this way. It wasn't.

MAF is the biggest factor, highly doubtful Seattle is gifted a top 5 goalie.

Flames have had one maybe two goalies at his level in franchise history

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by dino7c

MAF is the biggest factor, highly doubtful Seattle is gifted a top 5 goalie.

Flames have had one maybe two goalies at his level in franchise history

Think you're wrong about that. Dan Bouchard, Reggie Lemelin, Mike Vernon, and Kiprusoff all have more top 10 seasons in GAA, Save %, or both. Fleury had a good year last year, but he's never really been a top 5 goalie, over his career he's generally been slightly better than average.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

MAF is the biggest factor, highly doubtful Seattle is gifted a top 5 goalie.

Flames have had one maybe two goalies at his level in franchise history

Many thought that Pittsburgh you;d have to give up something to get Vegas to take Fleury off their hands.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Madrox

Think you're wrong about that. Dan Bouchard, Reggie Lemelin, Mike Vernon, and Kiprusoff all have more top 10 seasons in GAA, Save %, or both. Fleury had a good year last year, but he's never really been a top 5 goalie, over his career he's generally been slightly better than average.

Fleury's career GAA and save percentage are only nominally worse than Carey Price.

Price has 612 GP, 2.48 GAA and .918
Fleury has 795 GP 2.56 and .913

Fleury has played 15+ playoff games four times and been to three finals as his team's undisputed #1. During three of those runs, he had save percentages over .920. The year he had a .908, he won the Stanley Cup.

Marc Andre Fleury is going to finish top-5 all time in wins. He's going to walk off the ice and into the Hall of Fame because he's one of the best to ever do it. If more people could do what Fleury has done, they would.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Fleury's career GAA and save percentage are only nominally worse than Carey Price.

Price has 612 GP, 2.48 GAA and .918
Fleury has 795 GP 2.56 and .913

Fleury has played 15+ playoff games four times and been to three finals as his team's undisputed #1. During three of those runs, he had save percentages over .920. The year he had a .908, he won the Stanley Cup.

Marc Andre Fleury is going to finish top-5 all time in wins. He's going to walk off the ice and into the Hall of Fame because he's one of the best to ever do it. If more people could do what Fleury has done, they would.

Yeah, but thats essentially the Chris Osgood paradox. Fluery played all those years with a couple generational talents on his team. And I'm not saying he's a bad goalie, but I would be in the camp that puts him more on the average part of the scale. I'm not sure I would put him in the HoF. While he will end up with great numbers, I think of hall of famers as players that were among the best at their position for a number of years. To me that just doesn't ring true with Fluery. He was the passenger not the driver for most of those years.

Sorry for taking the discussion more off topic. For the on topic spin, as an outsider I think you guys lucked out not getting Stone. You've got great homegrown talent. Don't get rid of it to bring in a guy that will give you all sorts of cap trouble going forward.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Fleury's career GAA and save percentage are only nominally worse than Carey Price.

Price has 612 GP, 2.48 GAA and .918
Fleury has 795 GP 2.56 and .913

Fleury has played 15+ playoff games four times and been to three finals as his team's undisputed #1. During three of those runs, he had save percentages over .920. The year he had a .908, he won the Stanley Cup.

Marc Andre Fleury is going to finish top-5 all time in wins. He's going to walk off the ice and into the Hall of Fame because he's one of the best to ever do it. If more people could do what Fleury has done, they would.

Yeah he's had some down times over his career but that happens whey you play for a very long time. He's accomplished far more than Carey Price over his NHL career and I said it with Vernon and I will say it again; Any goaltender that wins a Stanley Cup and makes multiple trips to the Stanley Cup finals as a starter with different teams is a really good goaltender. You may get lucky one season on one team that goes on a run but the Stanley Cup is to hard to win and no goaltender lucks himself into multiple SC final appearances with different teams nonetheless.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Burke...based on taxes he would have to pay in Calgary Vs. Vegas.

History too, a team like Calgary is gonna have to outbid for a UFA. Stone didn't have to sign just because he was traded.

Vegas is a top UFA destination...I always hate the "why didn't Calgary sign him to that deal" type posts, the price is higher in places like Calgary

Exactly. 9.5 in Vegas is 11 in Calgary, 15.9 in Winnipeg and hard pass on Edmonton

[The Yen Man]

I'm not sure if $11.5M is the real tax equivalent or not. I suspect guys like Burke and other NHL analysts who are referencing this number don't have a firm grasp at all the tax nuances, and different tax breaks that can be utilized. Regardless, I'm guessing it would still be around the 10M range to get the equivalent amount.

And for that price, Stone is way overpaid. He would not be worth $4M more than the Flames highest paid player. Again, the guy is good, but that's up there with the elites in the league, and Stone is not in that tier IMO.

Plus, the amount of futures the Flames would have to give up, and I'm real glad Treliving didn't do the trade. It would have crippled the team both present and future for just one playoff run.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

He hasn’t been on the ice for a goal against since he got there. The guy is a stud...

Mark Stone was a minus-2 last night after scoring a goal. He was on the ice for all four goals scored by the 3M line.

Vegas will be favoured over us in the first round. Without question. And that has everything to do with Mark Stone...

No. The Flames are better than Vegas, and it has showed in every game they have faced off against each other this season, outscoring the vaunted Knights to the tune of 14–9. With or without Mark Stone, the Flames would absolutely be favoured in a seven game series.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Yeah, but thats essentially the Chris Osgood paradox. Fluery played all those years with a couple generational talents on his team. And I'm not saying he's a bad goalie, but I would be in the camp that puts him more on the average part of the scale. I'm not sure I would put him in the HoF. While he will end up with great numbers, I think of hall of famers as players that were among the best at their position for a number of years. To me that just doesn't ring true with Fluery. He was the passenger not the driver for most of those years.

Sorry for taking the discussion more off topic. For the on topic spin, as an outsider I think you guys lucked out not getting Stone. You've got great homegrown talent. Don't get rid of it to bring in a guy that will give you all sorts of cap trouble going forward.

This is hockey. You can't win it all without multiple superstar players. And even if you have the superstar skaters, they can't win without a goalie. Just look at the other team in Pennsylvania. The Penguins without Fleury/Murray are the Flyers. It's always great to have the two best centres in the world on your team, but the goalie still has to win games, and there were a few seasons where Fleury genuinely let them down. But it's clear those days have passed, and the man is an elite goalie.

Patrick Roy: 1029 GP 2.54 .910
Miikka Kiprusoff: 623 GP 2.49 .913
Carey Price: 612 GP, 2.48 GAA and .918
Marc Andre Fleury: 795 GP 2.56 and .913

Seems like pretty good company.

To keep it off topic, Chris Osgood belongs in the Hall of Fame. People talk about him like he's Antti Niemi.

-13th all time in wins with 401.
-3x Stanley Cup winner - twice as a starter.
-4x Stanley Cup finalist - three times as a starter.
-GAA during his playoff runs: 2.12, 1.55, 2.01
-Save % during his playoff runs: 0.918, .930, .926
-6x 30+ wins
-13x 20+ wins
-39 shutouts
-2x William Jennings winner

H.O.F.