[Game Takes] Flames 2 Devils 1

[Bingo]

Game Takes:
Flames 2 Devils 1

- Rittich has a quiet first two, but solid third
- Giordano 5th dman to post 60 points at age 35.
- Gaudreau two points
- Flames win their 7th in a row
- Tough February ends 8-3-2

[timbit]

Great write up Bingo. One difference of opinion as I will take Czarnik over Mangiapane, at this point.

[Enoch Root]

Great write-up as always. Good points on Brodie. Not sure if I would put Mangiapane ahead of Czarnik, but it is certainly a fair debate. I am also a big fan of Dube, and with those 3 guys all fighting to get into the lineup, the Flames have some solid depth.

Top 10 forwards are pretty straight-forward. Then you still have several guys to work with in:

Hathaway
Mangiapane
Czarnik
Dube

and then Quine, Lazar, Lomberg and Rychel as reserves.

[Strange Brew]

Mangiapane is stronger than I had realized and I notice him getting into the corners and winning some battles. And his hands are not a write off either. A nice combination for a 3rd or 4th liner.

Czarnik gives you a little more offense and can help on the PP. But not a typical bottom line player.

As for Guardeau's lack of hustle on the turnover, will be interesting to see how some of the players handle success over final 18 games.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Mangiapane is stronger than I had realized and I notice him getting into the corners and winning some battles. And his hands are not a write off either. A nice combination for a 3rd or 4th liner.

Czarnik gives you a little more offense and can help on the PP. But not a typical bottom line player.

As for Guardeau's lack of hustle on the turnover, will be interesting to see how some of the players handle success over final 18 games.

Mangiapane plays a heavier game so he can play up and down the roster. Czarnik needs to be scoring or he doesn't really do much else.

Beyond that Mangiapane is more sure with the puck, makes less turnovers, and looks to be better defensively.

Honestly in my opinion it's not all that close.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Mangiapane plays a heavier game so he can play up and down the roster. Czarnik needs to be scoring or he doesn't really do much else.

Beyond that Mangiapane is more sure with the puck, makes less turnovers, and looks to be better defensively.

Honestly in my opinion it's not all that close.

I think that you nailed it. If Czarnik is not scoring he is not very useful. Fortunately he has the scoring touch right now. I hope that he never loses it.

This is a good problem to have. Winners have more players than spots. Someone good is going to have to sit, and when they get their next chance they will have to play hard to keep it.

[Enoch Root]

The important thing is having multiple guys, with different skill-sets, to rotate into the lineup. You have your 10 or 11 starters, then you ask yourself: What type of player do you want in there tonight? Or if injury fill-in, what is the role?

Right side: Hathaway, Czarnik, Lazar
Left side: Mangiapane, Dube, Rychel
Center: Quine, Dube

Great teams have depth that they can rotate in, and keep everyone hungry.

Having 10 NHL defensemen doesn't hurt either.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The important thing is having multiple guys, with different skill-sets, to rotate into the lineup. You have your 10 or 11 starters, then you ask yourself: What type of player do you want in there tonight? Or if injury fill-in, what is the role?

Right side: Hathaway, Czarnik, Lazar
Left side: Mangiapane, Dube, Rychel
Center: Quine, Dube

Great teams have depth that they can rotate in, and keep everyone hungry.

Having 10 NHL defensemen doesn't hurt either.

In the same vein, that's why it's nice having two goalies going and especially a goalie with Mike Smith's skill set. When you play a dump and chase/cycle team he completely destroys their game plan with his puck handling, as we saw twice recently against the Isles.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Mangiapane plays a heavier game so he can play up and down the roster. Czarnik needs to be scoring or he doesn't really do much else.

Beyond that Mangiapane is more sure with the puck, makes less turnovers, and looks to be better defensively.

Honestly in my opinion it's not all that close.

I think your writeup is an incredible testament to how much Mangiapane has improved. If I remember correctly, you were highly sceptical about how his skills would translate now into the NHL—several of us were. Now he is making a believer of his critics. That's the best thing any player can do.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think your writeup is an incredible testament to how much Mangiapane has improved. If I remember correctly, you were highly sceptical about how his skills would translate now into the NHL—several of us were. Now he is making a believer of his critics. That's the best thing any player can do.

Yeah I didn't see anything. He looked like that classic tweener. Fans love young players, so they bemoaned who he was getting for linemates, but he wasn't doing enough to get better linemates.

Now?

He's joined with Ryan to make the fourth line a tough out on every shift, he's noticeably winning board battles, has some offensive skill to move the puck to smart areas when he wins them, and is making smart plays defensively.

He's gone from expandable to a keeper with an interesting upside to me.

Not lost on Peters either as he's been the guy to move up a line quickly after special teams here and there.

[Strange Brew]

Peters was playing him before there was any production from him at all, so he saw something. It's possible the guy knows something about hockey.

[transplant99]

Mangiapane is a better 4th line option than Czarnick, but I think Czarnik is a better 2nd/3rd line option than Mangiapane...at least in the concept of what to expect from the lines themselves.

[sa226]

It can't be understated how good Backlund has been lately and how important his play is for the fortunes of this team.

The guy is a career plus 8 to 10ish guy. This year? Plus 30. How is that? Does Peters deploy a bit differently? How can a guy who does that much heavy lifting, be plus 30?

He has garnered Selke votes in previous years. How about this year? Lindholm seems to be getting the Selke attention this year, and rightfully so, but Backlund and his plus 30 is leading the way for me.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Mangiapane is a better 4th line option than Czarnick, but I think Czarnik is a better 2nd/3rd line option than Mangiapane...at least in the concept of what to expect from the lines themselves.

Although I do think Czarnik has more pure offensive skill, he is also more of a finished product at 3.5 years older. Mangiapane could still well end up as a 2nd line player. Helluva draft pick.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Mangiapane is a better 4th line option than Czarnick, but I think Czarnik is a better 2nd/3rd line option than Mangiapane...at least in the concept of what to expect from the lines themselves.

Not even sure if I'd agree with that.

Czarnik may be a little quicker, but when it comes to taking a pass, alluding defenders, and finding the open guy Mangiapane has him beat now. Those are all middle six skills and he's only going to get better.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Czarnik may be a little quicker.

I think Czarnik is a LOT quicker. He seems to have gamebreaking type speed. Look at how much of the ice Czarnik covers so quickly on this sequence that leads to an Andersson goal two nights ago:



That's a type of speed element we have not had since Paul Byron. Czarnik is literally all over the offensive zone. Right circle, forechecking behind the net on the left, left wall, taking the puck to the high slot, and then crashing the front of the net. He's almost moving as fast as the puck is.


Mangiapane is better defensively, and I could see him being a better fit on that Tkachuk - Backlund line. I also agree Mangiapane is great away from the puck to get open. But man, what Czarnik brings is pretty unique to our offensive zone. I could see it even helping out the Gaudreau line with some sheltering.

[GioforPM]

Czarnik is very fast all right. He just needs to (a) do it every game and (b) not stick quite as much to the perimeter. When he goes to the net good things happen. I agree he could be Paul Byron.

Dube between those two guys is a fast (albeit small) line. If they unhook from Neil and Frolik you could see:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lidstrom
Tkachuk/Backlund/Zucker (or similar)
Mangiapane/Dube/Czarnik
Hathaway/Ryan/XXX

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lidstrom

...he might be a bit too old

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Czarnik is very fast all right. He just needs to (a) do it every game and (b) not stick quite as much to the perimeter. When he goes to the net good things happen. I agree he could be Paul Byron.

Dube between those two guys is a fast (albeit small) line. If they unhook from Neil and Frolik you could see:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lidstrom
Tkachuk/Backlund/Zucker (or similar)
Mangiapane/Dube/Czarnik
Hathaway/Ryan/XXX

Did Bennett leave town?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Czarnik is very fast all right. He just needs to (a) do it every game and (b) not stick quite as much to the perimeter. When he goes to the net good things happen. I agree he could be Paul Byron.

I think the bolded is the problem at this point ... just not in the guts of the game. Mangiapane is.