Humboldt Broncos tragedy.

[dubc80]

[QUOTE=oldschoolcalgary;6970910]its tragic on so many levels...

i have empathy for the driver of the bus, as well as the families of course... i think he does deserve jail time in that it was his carelessness that caused this tragedy...

it is literally the difference of a 1 second, using the calculation that 100 km/hr translates to 91 feet per second and a bus or trailer truck is typically only 50 feet long...[/QUOTE]

Yep, this totally blows my mind.

The driver stopped right before the intersection to adjust and re-attach the tarps too. He takes a few seconds more or less and this whole thing doesn't happen.

Guess there could of been a different vehicle in the intersection though...

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Yes, most definitely throw the book at the company.

How much training is enough? Was the company negligent in getting him to drive too long? Was the truck not in good working order? Didn't the government issue him a license, obviously the government thought that he could drive that truck - maybe we should throw the government official and/or the poor person at the local motor vehicle office that issued him a license in jail too. I get it, it must be the BIG bad companies fault. If the company was criminally negligent, then for all means, go after them, if not, leave them alone.


We've all made similar mistakes behind the wheel, and hopefully and thankfully we gotten away with it with no one getting in an accident, getting hurt, or losing their lives or causing injury or death to others, but people do lose their lives everyday, those not so lucky individuals and times that do cause an accident... I just hope that if this ever happens to you or me - that forgiveness is granted.


A simple distraction or daydream moment, where you just drive without thinking, this happens all the time when driving on long trips, hell, short ones too and that's what happened here - it's as simple as that. We all do it - a bus full of young hockey players just happened to be there at that exact moment when this man (and the small family owned company that owned the truck) was blocking their way.



Jail is meant for criminals, not a person who is suffering from his mistake and will never ever forget or stop regretting it - the knowing that he killed and injured those people, that will haunt him for the rest of his life, this man is not a criminal, he's not a monster. Someone doesn't always have to go to jail for justice to be served. Companies aren't evil as well... a company gave him a job, took a chance on him, just remember that when you're looking for a job, or more like when your children or grandchildren are and don't have the experience - yet.

[EldrickOnIce]

Had he pled not guilty, it is my understanding that a conviction would have been nearly impossible.
It doesn't seem right that that he should face significant jail time for saving the families from having to go through that.
Lawyer friends suggest his representation has been horrible. There is no win here regardless.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Had he pled not guilty, it is my understanding that a conviction would have been nearly impossible.
It doesn't seem right that that he should face significant jail time for saving the families from having to go through that.
Lawyer friends suggest his representation has been horrible. There is no win here regardless.

A conviction wouldn't be impossible but it sure would have been difficult. I was almost certain that his guilty plea would be accompanied by a joint sentencing submission by defence and prosecution. His lawyers didn't accomplish this, for some reason.

[Weitz]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think 2-3 years is plenty of punishment. Especially considering he will likely be deported after.

I'll have a very hard time supporting him spending more time in jail than those who actively commit worse crimes.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

How much training is enough? Was the company negligent in getting him to drive too long? Was the truck not in good working order? Didn't the government issue him a license, obviously the government thought that he could drive that truck - maybe we should throw the government official and/or the poor person at the local motor vehicle office that issued him a license in jail too. I get it, it must be the BIG bad companies fault. If the company was criminally negligent, then for all means, go after them, if not, leave them alone.


We've all made similar mistakes behind the wheel, and hopefully and thankfully we gotten away with it with no one getting in an accident, getting hurt, or losing their lives or causing injury or death to others, but people do lose their lives everyday, those not so lucky individuals and times that do cause an accident... I just hope that if this ever happens to you or me - that forgiveness is granted.


A simple distraction or daydream moment, where you just drive without thinking, this happens all the time when driving on long trips, hell, short ones too and that's what happened here - it's as simple as that. We all do it - a bus full of young hockey players just happened to be there at that exact moment when this man (and the small family owned company that owned the truck) was blocking their way.



Jail is meant for criminals, not a person who is suffering from his mistake and will never ever forget or stop regretting it - the knowing that he killed and injured those people, that will haunt him for the rest of his life, this man is not a criminal, he's not a monster. Someone doesn't always have to go to jail for justice to be served. Companies aren't evil as well... a company gave him a job, took a chance on him, just remember that when you're looking for a job, or more like when your children or grandchildren are and don't have the experience - yet.

And his negligence makes the results of this whole thing and his actions....criminal.

It's why we are talking about this.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Had he pled not guilty, it is my understanding that a conviction would have been nearly impossible.
It doesn't seem right that that he should face significant jail time for saving the families from having to go through that.
Lawyer friends suggest his representation has been horrible. There is no win here regardless.

Mark Brayford is the most prominent, most high-profile defence lawyer in Saskatchewan so I doubt his representation has been horrible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And his negligence makes the results of this whole thing and his actions....criminal.

It's why we are talking about this.

Sure, but in most cases negligence doesn't equal criminality. Usually an intention is required. Driving is an exception, but intent is still an issue for sentencing.

I think the struggle for a lot of people is that we all can recall a traffic violation we have made that fortunately didn't cause an accident, and we can therefore empathize to some degree with the driver.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

10 years is fair, I also agree he will get out sooner.

The comments about ""will not bring them back..." are uncalled for and we always seem to get these when these murder cases come up in the threads. It shows a lack of education on civics, specifically law and order. It's not about bringing people back, its about law, order, and justice.

The drunk cement truck driver got 5.5 years for killing 5 people. You want to give this guy more?

That's crazy to me.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And his negligence makes the results of this whole thing and his actions....criminal.

It's why we are talking about this.

What was his negligence?

I have to be careful, as I am not sure of legal definitions. But in my professional world, negligence and errors are 2 different things.

Drinking, texting, being fatigued may be negligent. Making a mistake is not inherently negligent.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

What was his negligence?

I have to be careful, as I am not sure of legal definitions. But in my professional world, negligence and errors are 2 different things.

Drinking, texting, being fatigued may be negligent. Making a mistake is not inherently negligent.

Not paying attention/looking at his loose tarp while on cruise control.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4911599/h...stracted-tarp/

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And his negligence makes the results of this whole thing and his actions....criminal.

So I guess you're not a lawyer. Not all negligent actions are criminal - in fact, most negligent actions aren't criminal. I didn't shovel my sidewalk today - was that criminal? What if someone slips and falls today when I'm at work? What is someone slips and falls while delivering a package to my house.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

What was his negligence?

I have to be careful, as I am not sure of legal definitions. But in my professional world, negligence and errors are 2 different things.

Drinking, texting, being fatigued may be negligent. Making a mistake is not inherently negligent.

Not stopping at a marked intersection?

I would think that is considered negligent....no?

I mean Im no lawyer for sure but if that doesnt qualify, how is anyone ever blamed or found at fault in any vehicle collision?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

So I guess you're not a lawyer. Not all negligent actions are criminal - in fact, most negligent actions aren't criminal. I didn't shovel my sidewalk today - was that criminal? What if someone slips and falls today when I'm at work? What is someone slips and falls while delivering a package to my house.

No I'm not....is that OK?

No idea what the rest of the post is about because...im not a lawyer and it has nothing to do with anything we are talking about in this thread.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Weitz

The drunk cement truck driver got 5.5 years for killing 5 people. You want to give this guy more?

That's crazy to me.

Yes... crazy... I drove up on that sad scene that night, luckily for me emergency vehicles were already on the scene and I didn't have to witness it close up - but he did throw his vodka bottle in the barrel of the cement truck - very sad and criminal for sure.

[Makarov]

Dangerous driving requires more than just simple negligence. It requires the Crown to prove a reckless disregard for public safety.

Also, just as an FYI, custody is not reserved for criminal conviction sentences. It is available for many regulatory offences (which typically only require negligence on the part of the offender) if required in order to provide the appropriate specific and general deterrence.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No I'm not....is that OK?

No idea what the rest of the post is about because...im not a lawyer and it has nothing to do with anything we are talking about in this thread.

Well then, I think you may want to get out a dictionary and/or legal guide and simply look through it.


I'm not trying to be an ass here - but I think I probably do at least one thing a day that if the right situation occurs, could be negligent on my part - I think it's safe to say that we all do.



This is why we have insurance on our house and cars, any why a big component of that coverage is to cover us against our own negligence. Alberta is a fault province - where one party, or a proportion of the fault is assigned to both parties involved, they are assigning negligence. Should every accident be consider a crime, where someone is charged and criminally responsible? In fact, that's what the ticket is, it's the police officer criminally charging you for doing something wrong, but what if you simply slipped into the car in front of you because is was icy - you are just negligent.


There is one other concept in law in this case that muddies the waters a bit more than in my examples - and that is "Standard of care". Certainly a truck driver driving has a greater "Standard of Care" then I do - after all, he's a professional driver. So something that could be deemed negligent to me behind the wheel (just a regular driver), might be considered criminally negligent to him (because he's a professional). Example: I'm walking down the street, someone in front of me has a heart attack and I simply don't feel like stopping and helping him - there is very little recourse. If I was a doctor, my standard of care is much greater, I could be held criminally negligent for not helping.

[4X4]

I really feel bad for the driver. I know what it's like to be towing something and being concerned and distracted by the load. The thing is, stopping to recheck your tarps or straps doesn't totally alleviate the concern. There is inherent need to see it while you're in motion to confirm the load is secure. A driver cannot just strap it down and then assume all is well. Anyone with any degree of concern for others on the road will constantly check the mirrors to make sure there aren't tarps flapping or load shifting.

Just one hour ago I helped a guy who was driving a flat deck pick up his lost cargo. He went around a corner and the man lift he was hauling fell off the deck onto the road. I saw the heavy duty straps he used to strap it down. I don't know why it came loose, but he sure as hell didn't do it on purpose.

The thing is, that could have ended much worse than it did. He was rounding a corner on a single lane one way road, so there was no chance of it landing on another car, but if that had happened somewhere else, it very well could have, and that thing was goddamn heavy. It easily could have ended much worse than simple embarrassment and likely repairs to the machine.

I fully include the driver as one of the victims of this terrible tragedy. The first time I towed a trailer with a Bobcat on it, I think I spent more time looking in the rearview than out the windshield. It's a very uneasy feeling to be new to towing and hauling and I definitely think that the trucking industry should be increasing the amount of training drivers get. This driver got sent out on his first solo run after only two weeks of sitting shotgun. Ironically, his concern for another other kind of accident is what led to the actual accident.

Heartbreaking for everyone involved, including the driver.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Well then, I think you may want to get out a dictionary and/or legal guide and simply look through it.


I'm not trying to be an ass here - but I think I probably do at least one thing a day that if the right situation occurs, could be negligent on my part - I think it's safe to say that we all do.



This is why we have insurance on our house and cars, any why a big component of that coverage is to cover us against our own negligence. Alberta is a fault province - where one party, or a proportion of the fault is assigned to both parties involved, they are assigning negligence. Should every accident be consider a crime, where someone is charged and criminally responsible? In fact, that's what the ticket is, it's the police officer criminally charging you for doing something wrong, but what if you simply slipped into the car in front of you because is was icy - you are just negligent.

Criminal charges are not initiated by serving a ticket (offence notice). Those are regulatory offences under the Highway Traffic Act. They are not criminal offences under the Criminal Code of Canada. They are an entirely different type of offence and the vast majority might be described as offences of "negligence" (in the sense that the accused may avoid conviction by proving due diligence [ie, non-negligence]).

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

Sure he plead guilty and takes responsibility but this was also a choice of his for HIS best interests as well. You don't think him and his lawyer didn't talk about this and say "it will make you look good", "judges like defendants taking responsibility" etc etc etc he's also saying the "right things" in hopes he gets a lighter sentence, don't kid yurself that he isn't.

You're going to paint this guy as an absolute monster who doesn't care for the people and the families and just cares about himself??

Did you want him to not take responsibility and plead not-guilty?

And maybe I am 100% wrong and this guy is a sick #### who really has no remorse for his actions... but somehow I don't believe it. He did the right thing pleading guilty and taking responsibility for this under these circumstances.

And I know there are plenty of posters here that do feel empathy for the trucker, myself included, but that doesn't mean they are remorseless people who condone his mistake, or that they don't feel the sheer heart splitting sadness for these boys and their families.