Calgarypuck Mafia Game Thread

[devo22]

leaning towards crazy_eoj as well right now. I'll do some re-reading and cast a vote before I go to bed (in 2-3 hours).

[crazy_eoj]

Jeesh I really can't believe so many of you would believe me to not only be an oilers troll, but a TERRIBLE one at that. If I was an oilers troll I would be doing a heck of a lot better job of it!

Just think about it from a basic strategic level:

Day 1 - Come out with very first vote same as other troll (GGG)
Day 1 - Vote along with ALL other oilers trolls for final vote.
Day 2 - Vote for only other remaining oilers troll.

Do you seriously think that is a valid strategy?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Haven't much out of sebc or crazy_eoj. Silence is supposed to be bad. Fuzz is playing it how someone getting guided would be.

I think scorn is town for sure. Other than that I don't have a good read on anyone.

Anything useful out of Bonded's last post? He is a greaser, and throws out only one name he is "sure" is "town". Is that protecting Scorn as an Oiler? Or is that to amateur a move?


Would he be trying to draw attention to myself, sebc or crazy_eoj if they are Oilers? We know I am not, so maybe that clears sebc and crazy as well?


Do we take this post at face value, meaning he is protecting Scorn, and trying to get votes for myself, sebc and crazy_eoj? Or is the whole thing misdirection? This was an hour before elimination.

[SebC]

Let's assume, for a moment, that you (crazy_eoj) are town. It's final three, and one of you is mafia. Do you think the other townie should accept "I can't be mafia, because it would be too obvious" as a defence? Were I that other townie, I would much rather vote for the player who looks like mafia, and if I'm wrong, then at least I was beaten by someone who deserves it. You would lose, and town would lose. It would have been better for you to have been lynched earlier.

I'll also note that the defence you are using is the same one Bonded gave.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by SebC

Let's assume, for a moment, that you (crazy_eoj) are town. It's final three, and one of you is mafia. Do you think the other townie should accept "I can't be mafia, because it would be too obvious" as a defence? Were I that other townie, I would much rather vote for the player who looks like mafia, and if I'm wrong, then at least I was beaten by someone who deserves it. You would lose, and town would lose. It would have been better for you to have been lynched earlier.

I'll also note that the defence you are using is the same one Bonded gave.

First of all, I notice that you haven't responded to any of my direct questions after your long accusatory post? As someone who had two early votes against them from some strong players you've done a bang up job throwing the spotlight elsewhere.

Second, my pattern of behavior is a totally valid defence, and what else could I possibly offer? But it particularly makes sense early in the game when some basic strategy would reap the highest dividends for a troll player. I may be a new player, but I'm also not so simple as to not understand how to play.

For the Trolls to win this game, they NEED to avoid obvious and early links in the case one or more of them is discovered. My behavior has not done that. So many flames fans are seemingly going against their guts... that all 3 trolls wouldn't vote the same on day 1, that voting 5th for GGG is a 'troll' move... etc.

[Scornfire]

If you had participated more the first 2 days there'd be more to discuss/potentially exonerate you, as it is almost every single move you've made had a troll attachment, including going after me with Bonded's little seed plant and GGG's "Mistake" on the vote counting. You had 16 posts day 1 and 2 combined, I think that was about the lowest of anybody (Pot meet kettle calling me a low key player, when I had 38 posts during day 1 alone). Coming into day 3 hot all of a sudden is a huge red flag, especially when half your argument is based on circumstantial stuff that the proven trolls had planted

Your posts in sequential order

Post #15 - the mod convo

Post #31 - you act as if you're suspicious of GGG,

4 posts later you're jumping on his vote/revenge voting, again, 4 minutes after he clarifies something for you.

Post #80 - is pure innocence building

Post #92 - another "rookie" question

Post #94 - this one is actually pretty funny, I was 100% thinking I'd be first dead and almost made it a reality

Post #121 - On GGG's side now, kind of ballsy for a new player to tell someone else how they should be voting when you yourself haven't given any insights up to that point

Post #322 - You again rely on GGG for your reasoning to next Unvote Pux and then Vote Agulati.

Post #326 - we've had some discussion on, there's no actual reason to be asking me this BEFORE you cast your own vote except to absolve yourself of responsibility for the way the vote turns

Post #403 - You excuse your Agulati vote as just wanting to break the tie after GGG calls you out for not giving a reason for your vote (After I mention it) in his throwaway Agulati voting breakdown that is infinitely less committed than his breakdown of who voted on me

Post #447 - This is about 30m before GGG comes in with his pointless vote on you, so now it's not revenge on your part, not that it matters, you set up hammer like we've all been discussing we don't want to happen, and excuse it with being unavailable the rest of the night and don't have any of your own reasons to be doing this.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Anything useful out of Bonded's last post? He is a greaser, and throws out only one name he is "sure" is "town". Is that protecting Scorn as an Oiler? Or is that to amateur a move?


Would he be trying to draw attention to myself, sebc or crazy_eoj if they are Oilers? We know I am not, so maybe that clears sebc and crazy as well?


Do we take this post at face value, meaning he is protecting Scorn, and trying to get votes for myself, sebc and crazy_eoj? Or is the whole thing misdirection? This was an hour before elimination.

It served as both a Seed plant (Clearly) and was probably aimed to be an empathy play since I had mentioned I thought both Agulati and Bonded were flames fans, the simplest answer is he just wanted to get me to change my vote. That he references Eoj is on the face strange, the fact Eoj thinks it makes him look innocent and me guilty is an eyebrow raiser. Eoj referencing this post in his first foray into case building makes it feel more planned out. That he's leaning on it so hard while the rest of his arguments failed/rely on other circumstantial evidence from GGG/Bonded is all the more damning

[crazy_eoj]

Ok Scorn, we know you are an extremely emotional player, and I've also built a strong case against you. You're attacking whomever voted against you, I get that. Your case against me is that I'm such a poor player that I would have no strategy at all. That's fine.

However, I'm not going to argue with you anymore.

Let's take this another direction. If I get voted lynched, and flip town, who will you be voting for tomorrow? Let's help other flames fans, because that is the road you are headed.

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Let's take this another direction. If I get voted lynched, and flip town, who will you be voting for tomorrow? Let's help other flames fans, because that is the road you are headed.

Why switch directions? If we're going to hammer/lynch you, maybe some of us that are sitting on the fence would like some more info/talk about you.

Switching the heat to someone else is a troll-ish move.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Ok Scorn, we know you are an extremely emotional player, and I've also built a strong case against you. You're attacking whomever voted against you, I get that. Your case against me is that I'm such a poor player that I would have no strategy at all. That's fine.

However, I'm not going to argue with you anymore.

Let's take this another direction. If I get voted lynched, and flip town, who will you be voting for tomorrow? Let's help other flames fans, because that is the road you are headed.

But if you get banned that would mean he would still be here, so he would be able to contribute tomorrow.

If you get banned and you're town wouldn't giving us your thoughts for going forward be beneficial?

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Puxlut

Why switch directions? If we're going to hammer/lynch you, maybe some of us that are sitting on the fence would like some more info/talk about you.

Switching the heat to someone else is a troll-ish move.

I'm happy to answer any questions you want Pux. However scorn is just hammering away in his usual emotional manner, there's just no getting through to him. I still think he's the final oiler troll but is just wasting time with me, and if he's going to help the town he needs to explain what's next because if I get lynched I will flip town.

[Scornfire]

What case? I'd like to hear your argument against me again with the falsehoods removed (The vote count which you already retracted, I didn't push Biz at any point, claiming I included GGG as a "throwin" to the mod convo theory I had when he was very clearly my main target. Taking issue with my early day 2 post claiming I gave up on it when it gained no traction, It was corrected before probably anybody else had opened the thread. What case? The only things I've seen are points that I would imagine were being discussed in troll chat as potential bait for getting votes on me. The strategy was probably to get as many good players out asap as possible and keep the rookies around for easy end game prey, it failed spectacularly day 1 and has probably been well off the rails since mid day 2. Being that I felt GGG was long gaming me day 2 I imagine there's a few tidbits that were floated around, now it's panic mode and I'm the only one with some low hanging fruit to cling to. Why do you sit around the first 2 days and then come out day 3 swinging? What's the impetus for this?

Here's GGG's seed plant on me;

Originally Posted by GGG

Scorn at the end has to chose between Agulati and Bonded chooses to keep Agulait based on experience. In this position if Scorn and Bonded are both scum it might make sense to cut their losses and have Scorn vote out Bonded as in that scenario they would both be targets the following day if they didn’t. It would also make sense that Scorn waited so long to place his vote. This works especially well if he is the proxy troll. However I don’t think we go there today.

Someone didn't think he'd be gone so soon, but it doesn't change the fact I'm clearly someone the Trolls are trying to plant seeds on here

As for your question, WinnipegFan, who is my backup tonight if we don't get consensus on one of us. If only because he's provided nothing and gave GGG the ability to ban hammer for no reason despite multiple people parroting to keep away from a hammer.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

First of all, I notice that you haven't responded to any of my direct questions after your long accusatory post?

I don't think I need to. I've presented my case, and its validity is not dependent on me jumping through your hoops.

Having said that...

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Why/how do you think GGG showed Scorn to be a townie?
Why do you think Bizaro and Dissent were eliminated? If I was a troll, I don't see either of them ever focused on me?
Do you honestly believe GGG would have allowed such terrible strategic play from his team?

1. Asking this just confirms that you are, at best, a weak townie.
2. Answering this would inform mafia strategy should I happen to be wrong about you.
3. I've already discussed how letting this be used as a defence is poor play. Doing so creates an avenue for strong town to lose to weak mafia.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

But if you get banned that would mean he would still be here, so he would be able to contribute tomorrow.

If you get banned and you're town wouldn't giving us your thoughts for going forward be beneficial?

I've written a long post about Scorn which nobody has even commented on?

I think there's a lot to think about regarding SebC's behavior as well. He hasn't responded to my questions at all. Isn't that troll-like? McKajz has been exploring that line of thinking in detail as well.

Scorn and SebC would be my top 2 suspicions for sure.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by SebC

I don't think I need to. I've presented my case, and its validity is not dependent on me jumping through your hoops.

Having said that...

1. Asking this just confirms that you are, at best, a weak townie.
2. Answering this would inform mafia strategy should I happen to be wrong about you.
3. I've already discussed how letting this be used as a defence is poor play. Doing so creates an avenue for strong town to lose to weak mafia.

This is EXACTLY the kind of post a strategic troll would make.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I've written a long post about Scorn which nobody has even commented on?

Post it again, maybe there's too much noise and people missed it

[crazy_eoj]

Scorn you think the 'trolls' would be smart enough to plant plant several seeds about you, but too dumb to separate their early votes? Interesting thought, I guess.

[crazy_eoj]

Here's my original post re: scorn

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Awesome work Flames Fans, grabbing two oiler trolls on the first two days is pretty impressice.

After re-reading the entire thread, I'm suspicious of Scornfire. He spent the first few pages of the game simply trying to lay low, claiming to not be available, and posting frequently about how the game was 'too meta' or dissapointing. This would fit with GGG's posting seeming to protect new players. Yet he posted just enough not to be the lowest poster.

In post 248 he references a conversation between Hockey/Biz/Sebc and then adds on GGG's name after. Seems like he was debating whether to even mention GGG for some reason.

GGG didn't mention the tied vote between Scornfire and Agulati/Bonded when he flipped his vote from Puxlut to Agulati to try and raise votes on Day 1. Notable omission that was also mentioned by bizaro.

Scorn tries to push votes to bizaro and day one and repeatedly claimed he doesn't think Bonded is oiler troll. However he is boxed in with a tied vote for either him or Bonded and has to move now, making a great cover. Scornfire does vote for bonded late on game day 1, breaking a tie . But then Bonded calls Scorn 'definitely a townie' even after he votes to lynch him, which is a strange response right before you may be lynched.

Day 2 Scorn comes in with an early theory against me, but making mistakes on the vote count kind of goes quiet when there is no support. After consensus begins to build on a vote for GGG he has a long post accusing GGG of being a troll, and saying that he's leaning towards a vote on GGG. He never follows through on this vote.

He spends his next few posts instead defending GGG and being concerned with how the votes are piling up against him. He continually suggests voting for less active players, making sure to sometime mention how he distrusts GGG.

Today again he mentions how he was against GGG the whole time.

Methinks he doth protest too much.

[Scornfire]

If they were smarter they'd have done it in a less painfully obvious manner

[devo22]

Scornfire was the deciding vote on day 1 though. Bonded and agulati were tied with 5 votes, why would he kill his Oilers buddy?


You keep defending yourself with "I'd be stupid to do this and that if I were scum", but conveniently overlook Scornfire tipping the scale towards Bonded.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by devo22

Scornfire was the deciding vote on day 1 though. Bonded and agulati were tied with 5 votes, why would he kill his Oilers buddy?


You keep defending yourself with "I'd be stupid to do this and that if I were scum", but conveniently overlook Scornfire tipping the scale towards Bonded.

whoops, got that wrong - agulati had 4 votes, not 5. So Scorn and Bonded were tied. Still no reason for Scorn to kill his buddy in that instance - a tie would have resulted in no lynch.