Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I just think it's funny that he thinks that many people would pay $1000 for one of those seats.
maybe a couple thousand would pay $100 a pair.

If we are selling oil at market value, pipelines are humming both east and west & the flames win the Stanley cup the given year they put them up for sale, one might get $1,000 for a pair of seats .... I can't imagine there even being a lineup if they handed them out for $10 each right now.

[GullFoss]

Not going to lie - I thought the library project wasn't a great use of funds. Then...I went to visit the Calgary Central Library yesterday.

It is amazing! It's not just a library, its a public space where people can collaborate and interact and just be around other Calgarians - both friends and strangers. It has an awesome children's area, a teenager only area, conference rooms you can book, a digital commons. It's a project that encourages us to build the social capital that makes our city stronger.

This reinforced three clear points for me:

• If a library can be more than just a library, an arena can be more than just an arena. The arena project can be a piece of public infrastructure that is accessible to more than just concert goers and sports attendees. It can have a public benefit component. But it requires out of the box thinking that will force the Flames and City of Calgary to collaborate. I use to think the need for public money was a terrible thing, but I'm starting to see that it can actually be a huge strength by forcing the infrastructure to be more versatile.
  
• The city knows what its doing; trust that the process - while lengthy and cumbersome - will result in a great piece of infrastructure. The city absolutely nailed it with the library. Amazing architecture. Very good use of space. A feeling of inclusion. Something for everyone. If this arena process takes 5 or 10 years longer than it should have, it will be worth it if they get the answer right. Why all the haste when trying to get a $500m investment right!?!? Better to be right than fast.
  
• Beautiful infrastructure combats the malaise inflicting the city. I felt a lot of civic pride being in the library. It's an amazing feeling after this province and city has been #### on for four straight years. I often wonder what the future holds for the city - a visit to the library suggests the future is bright.

[oldschoolcalgary]

As someone involved in architecture, its always nice to hear people that are outside of the profession react positively to what a great public space can do...

i am obviously biased, but i think that there is a major difference between architecture and buildings... the latter simply serve to fulfill functional program, while the latter can inspire and awe outside of its contents.

the combination of the Arena and the convention center offers a really interesting opportunity to create a kind of hybrid building that is not simply an arena... i think when you are thinking about using public funds then there is a mandate to ensure that all the public can benefit...and combining the two could result in some really amazing spaces

as a purely academic exercise, i think that there is some really interesting opportunities here...I am cautiously optimistic about what has transpired and am looking forward to see what the plan is going forward.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

• If a library can be more than just a library, an arena can be more than just an arena. The arena project can be a piece of public infrastructure that is accessible to more than just concert goers and sports attendees. It can have a public benefit component. But it requires out of the box thinking that will force the Flames and City of Calgary to collaborate. I use to think the need for public money was a terrible thing, but I'm starting to see that it can actually be a huge strength by forcing the infrastructure to be more versatile.
  
  

Not just an "arena", an "event centre", you might say.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Not going to lie - I thought the library project wasn't a great use of funds. Then...I went to visit the Calgary Central Library yesterday.

It is amazing! It's not just a library, its a public space where people can collaborate and interact and just be around other Calgarians - both friends and strangers. It has an awesome children's area, a teenager only area, conference rooms you can book, a digital commons. It's a project that encourages us to build the social capital that makes our city stronger.

This reinforced three clear points for me:

• If a library can be more than just a library, an arena can be more than just an arena. The arena project can be a piece of public infrastructure that is accessible to more than just concert goers and sports attendees. It can have a public benefit component. But it requires out of the box thinking that will force the Flames and City of Calgary to collaborate. I use to think the need for public money was a terrible thing, but I'm starting to see that it can actually be a huge strength by forcing the infrastructure to be more versatile.
• The city knows what its doing; trust that the process - while lengthy and cumbersome - will result in a great piece of infrastructure. The city absolutely nailed it with the library. Amazing architecture. Very good use of space. A feeling of inclusion. Something for everyone. If this arena process takes 5 or 10 years longer than it should have, it will be worth it if they get the answer right. Why all the haste when trying to get a $500m investment right!?!? Better to be right than fast.
• Beautiful infrastructure combats the malaise inflicting the city. I felt a lot of civic pride being in the library. It's an amazing feeling after this province and city has been #### on for four straight years. I often wonder what the future holds for the city - a visit to the library suggests the future is bright.

well said, but I'm not sure what public benefit component an arena/event centre can add, where the average citizen can go often and at very little or no cost to themselves.

I can go to a library every day of the week and utilize their services for free. an "event centre" can at best do what, maybe have one public event every month or two?

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

well said, but I'm not sure what public benefit component an arena/event centre can add, where the average citizen can go often and at very little or no cost to themselves.

I can go to a library every day of the week and utilize their services for free. an "event centre" can at best do what, maybe have one public event every month or two?

1. A portion of the concourse that is accessible year round and services an outdoor rink in the winter (with well kept facilities and a concession).

2. Access to a sports bar that overlooks the rink with floor to ceiling windows for off game usage.

Those are two ideas off the top of my head. We have far more creative people in the city that can come up with even better ideas.

[topfiverecords]

Flames and Hitmen historic memorabilia perhaps in storefront windows at street level. Could be double sided so you could see the other sides of things when in the concourse.

A section of the concourse that converts from indoor to outdoor or has public access with a view into the rink and to all of the current and future banners in the rafters.

A public plaza with a public skating rink.

[sureLoss]

Former mayoral candidate Bill Smith is back...

And he is pushing a new fieldhouse to replace McMahon stadium built where the current baseball stadium is now. Presented to city council behind closed doors today



https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...centre-project

The proposal aims to “change the face of northwest Calgary” on a 100-acre property bordered by Crowchild Trail, 24th Avenue, 16th Avenue and University Drive N.W.

The new indoor stadium would be situated on the northeast corner of the site, close to where the Foothills baseball stadium is now, with a connected practice field/facility to the north. The new facility would also provide indoor competitive track and field facilities and a new home for both the Calgary Stampeders and U of C Dinos football clubs.

The proposal also envisions two new hockey arenas, including one with 6,500 seats at the centre of the site, competitive aquatic facilities in the northwest corner closer to the university’s entrance and several retail and residential buildings on the site’s north and south edges.

Patricia Phillips, CEO with PBA Land, said the project’s retail and entertainment district is inspired by PBA’s Calgary Rising luxury hotel development called The Dorian, which officially announced construction this summer touting a $100-million boost to the local economy.

“This project will allow us to access 100 acres of land, and do something worthwhile,” Phillips said. “So, it’s no longer a cost burden to the public, it’s revenue generating.”

[Bunk]

Very odd plan. This is a more poorly thought out plan than even CalgaryNEXT, which is saying a lot. Why is the stadium on top of 24th Ave, partially?

As a side note, Smith’s Law Office and PBA happen to be in the same office building in eau claire, so I guess that is the connection there. It seems presumptuous that PBA would be the proponent developing on what is public land. That would have to be a competitive process. They’re comparing this project to a single small site higrise hotel project of theirs in the centre of downtown. Was this all just to be able to mention that in the news?

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Very odd plan. This is a more poorly thought out plan than even CalgaryNEXT, which is saying a lot. Why is the stadium on top of 24th Ave, partially?

As a side note, Smith’s Law Office and PBA happen to be in the same office building in eau claire, so I guess that is the connection there. It seems presumptuous that PBA would be the proponent developing on what is public land. That would have to be a competitive process. They’re comparing this project to a single small site higrise hotel project of theirs in the centre of downtown. Was this all just to be able to mention that in the news?

I'm shocked that anyone used that for a presentation.
That is rough.

I'm assuming that it's hanging over University Drive and 24th Ave because someone did a crappy job of scaling it when they brought the image over from Sketchup.
I'm not sure I would even show this at a interim crit.

[You Need a Thneed]

I don’t think I’d trust people who can’t properly scale a simple rendering on top of a map, to build a quarter billion dollar project.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Very odd plan. This is a more poorly thought out plan than even CalgaryNEXT, which is saying a lot. Why is the stadium on top of 24th Ave, partially?

As a side note, Smith’s Law Office and PBA happen to be in the same office building in eau claire, so I guess that is the connection there. It seems presumptuous that PBA would be the proponent developing on what is public land. That would have to be a competitive process. They’re comparing this project to a single small site higrise hotel project of theirs in the centre of downtown. Was this all just to be able to mention that in the news?

Very bizarre development plan - the Corbusian layout of those towers is right out of the 50s.

Conceptually, I think funding McMahon's replacement through redevelopment of the existing site makes a lot of sense, however I don't understand why they would propose tearing down essentially all of the amateur sports facilities on the site just to rebuild them in slightly different places. If anything, hopefully it generates some momentum behind finding a solution for McMahon but that concept needs to go back to the drawing board.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Very bizarre development plan - the Corbusian layout of those towers is right out of the 50s.

Conceptually, I think funding McMahon's replacement through redevelopment of the existing site makes a lot of sense, however I don't understand why they would propose tearing down essentially all of the amateur sports facilities on the site just to rebuild them in slightly different places. If anything, hopefully it generates some momentum behind finding a solution for McMahon but that concept needs to go back to the drawing board.

Mixed with a little Pruitt Igoe

[getbak]

No news is no news...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1090084768882909184

[kermitology]

Oh that’s disappointing. I know Patricia quite well, my Dad was CFO at PBA for years. I wonder who did the project plan?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by getbak

No news is no news...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1090084768882909184

Since the refined financing options for the arena would surely require understanding the Flames contribution, this could actually advance things pretty quickly.

[getbak]

Looking into it a little more, I don't think that rendering is as out-of-whack as it first appears.

Here's the city's plan for the Crowchild upgrades, which includes realigning 24th Ave towards the north slightly: http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...m-rec-plan.pdf

It looks like their rendering would fit within the new footprint after the realignment. If that's the case, they really should have included the realigned roads in the rendering as well.

[iamca]

Some posters are too hung up on the ####ing seats. This was less about the "what" and more about a good faith gesture from the Flames organization to help offset some the costs and have fans get a piece of the Saddledome.

I appreciate the members who said thanks.

[Roughneck]

I think that it should be mentioned that the Flames do not own the seats. They manage the Saddledome, they don’t own it. If the seats are sold for a dollar or a thousand dollars that would effectively be a funding source for the city’s contribution.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Oh that’s disappointing. I know Patricia quite well, my Dad was CFO at PBA for years. I wonder who did the project plan?

PBA does have a solid reputation. It’s likely a very preliminary concept that was never intended to be released publicly.