High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Not accused. He did. That’s a fact. And oh no the celebrity has been publicly humiliated. You are making a weird amount of excuses for this. Are you a Louis superfan maybe?

And no if someone in the public eye was found out to have masturbated in front of multiple women against their will they would be shunned. Do you remember some different past where being a flasher was ok? Was the term Peeping Tom created as a fun nickname for a fella who wants to crank one off spying on women?

No not really a big fan. Watched a few episodes of his show and have never watched a full stand up show. I just don't understand the references that it if happened to one of us we would have difficult time getting a job in our field because I don't think that's the case unless you carry a badge around with you everywhere you go that you were accused of doing something bad. I haven't made any excuse for his actions. Not once. I just think some of you need to realize he's already paid a high price for this and am curious that a few of you here seem like you won't be happy until he's completely destroyed. Our PM used to grab women's asses randomly at gatherings. That's our PM not a comedian and nobody cares as it got neatly swept under the rug. Luis never put his hands on the women and some of you I feel are frothing at the mouth that he's a monster when he's really a person with mental issues. Sure he may have used his power to cover it up but pretty well anyone with power typically exercises that when they feel they are in peril and again not making excuses for him but that's the way that industry rolls and the less we know about our favorite stars is probably the better.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sure he may have used his power to cover it up but pretty well anyone with power typically exercises that when they feel they are in peril and again not making excuses for him but that's the way that industry rolls and the less we know about our favorite stars is probably the better.

So to paraphrase: other people (may) have done bad things. Other people who abuse their authority use their power to cover it up. And that's just the way the industry rolls.

But no, definitely not making excuses for him....


And why do you think it's better that we know less about our favourite stars? Why on earth would that be your lesson from this? Do you think it would be better if Louis CK committed these offenses and we didn't hear about it because the women were too afraid to come forward or not believed? Is that the take away? You're pretty much the target audience for the MeToo movement, people who close their eyes or don't care about the sexual misconduct of people in power because "well that's the industry."

[ResAlien]

I won’t be happy until he’s completely destroyed? Hot take from my posts for sure. He’s “already paid a high price” as you say, so what do you propose? Are we to remove his history of masturbating in front of women against their will from our consciousness? Boys will be boys and the such? Are we to give him money and television shows? No I think not. If he can’t find work now that’s on him, isn’t that how the free market works? Maybe he shouldn’t have made his personal brand so toxic with the whole “watch me masturbate yeah that’s right” habit of his. Whoopsie.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I won’t be happy until he’s completely destroyed? Hot take from my posts for sure. He’s “already paid a high price” as you say, so what do you propose? Are we to remove his history of masturbating in front of women against their will from our consciousness? Boys will be boys and the such? Are we to give him money and television shows? No I think not. If he can’t find work now that’s on him, isn’t that how the free market works? Maybe he shouldn’t have made his personal brand so toxic with the whole “watch me masturbate yeah that’s right” habit of his. Whoopsie.

I propose that you don't watch his shows and don't give him the time of day. Why is that so hard for some of you to comprehend?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So to paraphrase: other people (may) have done bad things. Other people who abuse their authority use their power to cover it up. And that's just the way the industry rolls.

But no, definitely not making excuses for him....


And why do you think it's better that we know less about our favourite stars? Why on earth would that be your lesson from this? Do you think it would be better if Louis CK committed these offenses and we didn't hear about it because the women were too afraid to come forward or not believed? Is that the take away? You're pretty much the target audience for the MeToo movement, people who close their eyes or don't care about the sexual misconduct of people in power because "well that's the industry."

People like you scare me quite frankly. I am envisioning you wiping saliva from your keyboard as the froth from your mouth drips. "How dare someone not be as outraged about Luis CK as I am. You must be a creep. You don't care about the Me Too movement." Listen to yourself as you are getting unhinged and angry calling me names because I don't share your opinion on the severity of Luis CK's punishment.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I propose that you don't watch his shows and don't give him the time of day. Why is that so hard for some of you to comprehend?

So your solution is to never discuss it again. What’s done is done and we are to move forward. Because we agree on the other part, I don’t watch or consume any of his work anymore.

You must really hate the #metoo movement. That’s what I’m getting from your stay silent and stop talking about it mentality. Apologies if I’m reading you wrong but it’s coming across like your problem is that this hasn’t been swept under the rug and forgotten about.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

So your solution is to never discuss it again. What’s done is done and we are to move forward. Because we agree on the other part, I don’t watch or consume any of his work anymore.

You must really hate the #metoo movement. That’s what I’m getting from your stay silent and stop talking about it mentality. Apologies if I’m reading you wrong but it’s coming across like your problem is that this hasn’t been swept under the rug and forgotten about.

You are definitely reading me wrong.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People like you scare me quite frankly. I am envisioning you wiping saliva from your keyboard as the froth from your mouth drips. "How dare someone not be as outraged about Luis CK as I am. You must be a creep. You don't care about the Me Too movement." Listen to yourself as you are getting unhinged and angry calling me names because I don't share your opinion on the severity of Luis CK's punishment.

So to recap your points, and actually debate this if you disagree with my assessment of any of your points but these all are pretty much word-for-word of what you have said.

-What he did was just a weird sexual fetish.
-It's not that serious.
-The women should not be traumatized by it. They're fine.
-It's how the industry rolls.
-Most people in power abuse their authority.
-It's better we don't know.

You see no issue with those lines of thinking?

You're not seeing the serious offense that forcing someone to do something sexual against their will because you have power of authority over them. His sexual fetish wasn't having people watch him masturbate, he could go on chat roulette if that was it. Or get any number of willing fans to come back stage. No, he liked the power of forcing someone in front of him to do something they were uncomfortable with and then use his influence from stopping them from coming forward or being heard.

You're telling the victims how they should feel, instead of understanding why they have been fighting to get their story heard for decades. Completely downplaying the emotional abuse and turmoil the victims may have gone through.

You're excusing his behaviour because it's so prevalent in the industry, instead of realizing how ####ed up the industry is and the changes it needs.

Again excusing his behaviour because other people in power also abuse their influence. The exact reason the MeToo movement exists, to bring about awareness of the prevalence of sexual harassment especially in the workplace by people with authority.

And to top it off, you think it would be better if we didn't know. Stealing the voice away from victims who want to be heard and preventing future victims.

[Matata]

I'm actually really excited about Louis releasing new material. As Christina P, a female(!!) comic put it "There is nothing funnier than someone with nothing left to lose and Louis is one of the best ever." I won't listen to the leaked stuff because I want to give him a chance to polish it up.


As far as the morality of it all goes....meh. I think the punishment has far outstripped the crime and I already enjoy the art of many worse people. I'm pretty sure the guys in Led Zeppelin and the Beatles have done much worse things, and I'm not about to stop listening to them.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Are we to give him money and television shows? No I think not. If he can’t find work now that’s on him, isn’t that how the free market works? Maybe he shouldn’t have made his personal brand so toxic with the whole “watch me masturbate yeah that’s right” habit of his.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The latest discussion on CK here wasn't started by someone complaining that CK can't make a living. It was started with a complaint that he's still working clubs.

But as you say, that's how the market works. Some people will pay to watch CK today, some people won't. Unless you're suggesting CK shouldn't be allowed to work, even when there are people willing to pay to see him, we're actually in agreement.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Matata

...
As far as the morality of it all goes....meh. I think the punishment has far outstripped the crime and I already enjoy the art of many worse people. I'm pretty sure the guys in Led Zeppelin and the Beatles have done much worse things, and I'm not about to stop listening to them.

One of the more sensible posts in this thread lately.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What is this so-called high price he's paid?
Dude is worth $16M according to net worth reports.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What is this so-called high price he's paid?
Dude is worth $16M according to net worth reports.

That's another strange thing to say. Should the appropriate punishment for a non-criminal but morally reprehensible action depend on how much money a person has? How would that work?

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What is this so-called high price he's paid?
Dude is worth $16M according to net worth reports.

He lost his career while at the top of his profession, lost out on millions of dollars, is forever shamed in the eyes of his daughters (this is probably the biggest one), permanent target of the internet outrage machine and humiliated in front of the entire world.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What is this so-called high price he's paid?
Dude is worth $16M according to net worth reports.

He's lost many millions more. His standup shows and TV series were all pulled from Netflix and HBO. Everything he had in production was cancelled. Contracts voided. Money gone.

He was maybe the biggest star in comedy, and now he's doing standup in small clubs for peanuts instead of raking in millions on Netflix specials, movie deals, tv shows that were in development, etc. He went from being one of the most acclaimed and influential creatives in the entertainment industry to being a pariah.

You might not think he's suffered enough. But to suggest nothing has happened to him is absurd.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Matata

I'm actually really excited about Louis releasing new material. As Christina P, a female(!!) comic put it "There is nothing funnier than someone with nothing left to lose and Louis is one of the best ever." I won't listen to the leaked stuff because I want to give him a chance to polish it up.


As far as the morality of it all goes....meh. I think the punishment has far outstripped the crime and I already enjoy the art of many worse people. I'm pretty sure the guys in Led Zeppelin and the Beatles have done much worse things, and I'm not about to stop listening to them.

I don’t like Louis CK, I never have, and this gives me more reason not to enjoy him if I needed it, but:

I agree with your last point. I enjoy a lot of great things from a lot of what we would consider bad people. I’m not going to look down on people for not ditching CK because I’m not willing to measure my own taste in the same way. I love Polanski, Bukowski, Lennon, Bardot, etc. It’s not about them as people.

Has he suffered enough? I don’t know, he’s suffered as much as he’s going to suffer. Enough is subjective, but consequences are always increased by being in the public eye, and decreased by having money and power. We’re not all equal.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Matata

He lost his career while at the top of his profession, lost out on millions of dollars, is forever shamed in the eyes of his daughters (this is probably the biggest one), permanent target of the internet outrage machine and humiliated in front of the entire world.

Louis CK was right at the height of his career, and definitely lost out on 10s of millions.

His movie I Love You, Daddy was also dropped just prior to release. Netflix cancelled an upcoming comedy special. CK was cut from the Secret Life of Pets 2. The FX network cut all ties. TBS also scrapped his planed TV series.

He ended up, in total, losing 2 regular TV programs, the ability to debut his movie, losing out on a lucrative Netflix special, and being dropped from the Secret Life of Pets 2 (the first movie made almost $900 million).

I'm not going to comment on whether this was enough punishment. However, from a financial point of view this was huge. CK was literally on the very verge of monetizing his fame and collecting on many fat paycheques.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Matata

He lost his career while at the top of his profession, lost out on millions of dollars, is forever shamed in the eyes of his daughters (this is probably the biggest one), permanent target of the internet outrage machine and humiliated in front of the entire world.

I think you misunderstand, he didn’t lose his career or lose out on millions of dollars. He cost himself those things and that’s a very important distinction to make. Shamed in the eyes of his daughters? Let me think whose fault that is...oh right the guy who loves cranking his hog in front of unwilling women.

I get feeling bad for his self inflicted fall from grace in a big picture “That’s sad to watch someone fail” view but I don’t see why he’s owed anything from anyone in the media consuming public.

[V]

Wouldn't it be great if the world actually grew a conscience and started getting serious about socially conscious media consumption? Let all of these dirtbags rot.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by V

Wouldn't it be great if the world actually grew a conscience and started getting serious about socially conscious media consumption? Let all of these dirtbags rot.

And who is the arbiter of this collective conscience?