Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. Both Puljujarvi and Yakupov were not good picks.

That is to say that even had the Oilers abstained from playing both in the NHL in their rookies years; even had they let them develop for a year or two at lower levels Yakupov and Puljujarvi would not have ever developed into top-six NHL players.

I am not sure that is as black and white as you are making it out to be. Columbus passing on JP was definitely a warning sign, but I don't agree with you that at 18 a player is on a predetermined trajectory that will determine if they will be a superstar, NHLer or less.

I do believe that Edmonton is the perfect storm of name recognition drafting + horrible development. There is not a single player on that team where you can say that they overachieved their draft position. Somewhat related, I also think that from a Flames perspective that it is very telling that Boucher was not on Buttons top 50. The Button brothers tend to be aligned on their opinion of prospects and I suspect Bouchard has his own warning signs and that the Flames likely would not have been high on him.

Either way...E=NG

[Reggie Dunlop]

The pile-on continues.... Spector weighs in.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...rumours-swirl/

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The pile-on continues.... Spector weighs in.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...rumours-swirl/

The best part of the Puljujarvi's quote is something that Spector left in but Staples conveniently left out....

“I’ve seen those stories,” Puljujarvi said. “I just go day-by-day with my business. I don’t think about those rumours.”

He smiles widely.

“In trades there are always positives and negatives.”

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. Both Puljujarvi and Yakupov were not good picks.

That is to say that even had the Oilers abstained from playing both in the NHL in their rookies years; even had they let them develop for a year or two at lower levels Yakupov and Puljujarvi would not have ever developed into top-six NHL players.

Both those players were picked where most people at the time thought they would be picked. They were both consensus top 5 picks from any source I can recall. Yakupov in particular had a decent start to his career before falling off quickly. That suggests to me that training and development played a large part in his failure.

[FlamesAddiction]

As a side note, JP is saying all the right things IMO. He seems to be taking some personal accountability and isn't whining.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Both those players were picked where most people at the time thought they would be picked. They were both consensus top 5 picks from any source I can recall. Yakupov in particular had a decent start to his career before falling off quickly. That suggests to me that training and development played a large part in his failure.

And this is one of those rare instances in which most people were wrong. I will repeat myself: Yakupov was never going to be a NHL scoring star, and Puljujarvi is not a top-six player in the NHL. Watch him play—he is simply not good enough, and he never has been.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And this is one of those rare instances in which most people were wrong. I will repeat myself: Yakupov was never going to be a NHL scoring star, and Puljujarvi is not a top-six player in the NHL. Watch him play—he is simply not good enough, and he never has been.

PullRV reminds me of Pavel Brendl.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

PullRV reminds me of Patel Brendl.

Exactly.

[Patek23]

I will bet anyone who wants it 100$ that if they trade Poolparty that where ever he lands he puts up 50+ points next season. If I’ve learned anything in life it’s that Edmonton just sucks the development out of these guys. Give him a change of scenery and a real management group around him and he will flourish.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And this is one of those rare instances in which most people were wrong. I will repeat myself: Yakupov was never going to be a NHL scoring star, and Puljujarvi is not a top-six player in the NHL. Watch him play—he is simply not good enough, and he never has been.

Well no, but how can you say that doesn't have to do with development? The vast majority of 18 year old prospects do not have the skill to play in the NHL and are not NHL ready. To say a 20 year old player "never has been good enough to play in the NHL" really doesn't mean anything and just underlines the fact that he should not have made the jump so quickly. Most players his age are still prospects on most teams.

The key is to identify players that have the bones and build on that. Most experts at the time saw the potential, but that didn't mean that the players didn't need proper development to become NHL players. They both stagnated at their 18 year old levels. JP should have been getting lots of ice-time and learning to score at lower levels instead of playing 4th line minutes in the NHL.

I am not a professional scout (and I assume you aren't either), so I tend to believe there was legitimacy to their pedigree at the time and that the Oilers couldn't make them the players they should have been. They have been ruining young talent for a long time, so it's not like it shouldn't be expected. Just look at young players that underwhelmed in Edmonton only to thrive as soon as they were taken on by another organization. Oilers development sucks. Even McDavid would probably be better playing somewhere else.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

PullRV reminds me of Pavel Brendl.

Brendl was different as he peaked too soon as a junior and by the time he was drafted by the Rangers his ego got in the way and destroyed what could have been a good NHL career.

After signing he took some of his bonus and bought a BMW and a nice fur coat. One day he walked into the Hitmen dressing room and flaunts the fur coat asking everyone what they thought. His teammates weren't impressed with his attitude.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

I will bet anyone who wants it 100$ that if they trade Poolparty that where ever he lands he puts up 50+ points next season. If I’ve learned anything in life it’s that Edmonton just sucks the development out of these guys. Give him a change of scenery and a real management group around him and he will flourish.

Offer void if his next stop is in Europe.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Brendl was all offense and no effort or d
Poolparty was thought to be a two way player with some offense but questions about how much
I see them very differently

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The pile-on continues.... Spector weighs in.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...rumours-swirl/

I couldn't make it past the third paragraph, he is just a horrible writer!

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And this is one of those rare instances in which most people were wrong. I will repeat myself: Yakupov was never going to be a NHL scoring star, and Puljujarvi is not a top-six player in the NHL. Watch him play—he is simply not good enough, and he never has been.

There are so many factors that no one could ever possibly say what any player could or couldn't be.

Just look at all the busts. And all the amazing undrafted or late drafted players. The best people at scouting hockey talent are involved in ranking and drafting these players.

To say something so concretely is just ignorant.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

“I’ve seen those stories,” Puljujarvi said. “I just go day-by-day with my business. I don’t think about those rumours.”

He smiles widely.

“In trades there are always positives and negatives.”

That's some "calling 911 and pretending to order pizza" level calling for help

[ColoradoFlamesFan]

I see Puljujarvi somewhat as I do Lazar.
I think time in the AHL earlier would have been better for both. Playing top important minutes.
Problem with so many teams is they want to be able to validate their drafting (Ottawa/Oil) or trade record (Calgary) so they keep the player up, and have him in a bad role. Remains to be seen if either can be NHL players.

[Funkhouser]

McDavid: Picasso who paints houses

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...paints-houses/

But McDavid, 22, has tied himself for the long term to a team that can’t figure it out. Some sports franchises couldn’t organize a two-car parade. Over the past decade, no one on the Edmonton Oilers' executive has a driver’s licence.

[Captaincanada80]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Just look at all the busts.

Thought this might be fun:

2016:
Jesse Puljujarvi (4th)
Olli Juolevi (5th)
Thanks for passing on the 2nd best player in the draft

2015:
Dylan Strome (3rd)

2014:
Michael Dal Colle (6th)

2013:
Super strong draft
Samuel Morin (11th) might be closest thing to bust

2012:
Griffin Reinhart (4th) haha stupid Oilers

2011:
Another strong draft
Duncan Seimens (11th)

2010:
Dylan McIrath (10th)
Jack Campbell (11th)

2009:
Scott Glennie (8th)

2008:
Nikita Filatov (6th)
Kyle Beach (11th)

2007:
Zack Hamill (8th)
Keaton Ellerby (10th)
RIP Alexei Cherepanov (17th)

2006:
Another strong top15 draft. No real busts

2005:
Strong draft again
RIP Luc Bourdon (10th)
Marek Zagrapan (13th)
Sasha Pokulok (14th)

2004:
Gross draft outside of the Russians and Wheeler
Cam Barker (3rd)
Al Montoya (6th)
Alexandre Picard (8th)
Boris Valabic (10th)
Laurie Tokunen (11th)
A.J Thelen (12th)

2003:
Hugh Jessiman (12th)
Only bust out of the whole first round!!

2002:
Pete Taticek (9th)
Jesse Ninnimaki (15th) Stupid Oilers!

2001:
Alexander Svitov (3rd)
Stanislav Chistov (5th)
Dan Blackburn (10th) Injury
Igor Knyazev (15th)

2000:
Lars Jonsson (7th)
Brent Krahn (9th)
Mikael Yakubov (10th)
Pavel Vorobiev (11th)
Alexei Smirov (12th)
Valclav Nederost (14th)
Artem Kryukov (15th)

1999:
Patrick Stefan (1st)
Pavel Brendl (4th)
Brian Finley (6th)
Kris Beech (7th)
Jain Rita (13th) Stupid Oilers!

[HotHotHeat]

That list is amazing. Their no goodness has really defied the odds.