[Signing] Flames sign James Neal (5 years, 5.75 AAV)

[Stay Golden]

Bench Neal for 4 games and see how he reacts when back on the ice. 2 is time off 4 is sending a real message. Treliving and Peter's evaluate honestly without contract bias how his return is with open comparisons to how Neal's replacement contributes.
For all that is holy STOP coddling this guy with PP time and the occasional shift with M&G. In no way should a healthy Lindholm ever lose a shift to Neal, ever.

[REDVAN]

I think we all really want this guy to get going, but it's been over half a season and I am disappointed. Don't know why he has been so bad this year, but I think he needs a change of scenery before it's too late.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Minutes after an OT win where the player the thread is dedicated to was terrible again. So? Are you saying if we had lost it would be ok then?

Posters can do what they wish...just found it funny certain posters who were negative in the GT skipped the PGT entirely, and immediately bumped this thread.

[Chr1s]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Bench Neal for 4 games and see how he reacts when back on the ice. 2 is time off 4 is sending a real message. Treliving and Peter's evaluate honestly without contract bias how his return is with open comparisons to how Neal's replacement contributes.
For all that is holy STOP coddling this guy with PP time and the occasional shift with M&G. In no way should a healthy Lindholm ever lose a shift to Neal, ever.

your'e right , only add:
Lindholm "loses" those shifts after he was used on the PK. So if Peters wants to get the 1st unit out there at this time, what totally makes sense , he has to replace Lindholm for those shifts.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Chr1s

your'e right , only add:
Lindholm "loses" those shifts after he was used on the PK. So if Peters wants to get the 1st unit out there at this time, what totally makes sense , he has to replace Lindholm for those shifts.

He does. But why does it have to be with Neal? He hasn't done anything to earn that extra shift, which is probably a pretty coveted little spot in the lineup for players not in the top 6. Literally every player is a better option. Put Hathaway there for all I care, at least he tries and will dig for a puck.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Posters can do what they wish...just found it funny certain posters who were negative in the GT skipped the PGT entirely, and immediately bumped this thread.

I bumped the thread and I was not negative in the game thread. I think I posted three times.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Posters can do what they wish...just found it funny certain posters who were negative in the GT skipped the PGT entirely, and immediately bumped this thread.

Well why not bring it here instead of pooping on a positive PGT? Cuz that's what they would be told to do.

[kehatch]

Sorry if this has already been brought up, but out of curiosity I was checking out the cost per point section of CapFriendly. Looking at the cost per point standardized by games played Neal is the fifth worst forward in the NHL.

Nylander sits worst at almost 600K per point. Next is Kesler, Lehtera, then Lucic. Neal sits right behind Lucic at 376K per point. The next worst Flames forward is Ryan at 136K. On the positive side, Tkachuk has is 7 highest on the list and costs just under 10K per point.

It doesn't mean much, and given his cap hit and production it isn't a surprise to many Flames fans. I also think Neal will find his groove eventually. But it is interesting. At least to me.

Here it is if anyone is interested: https://www.capfriendly.com/cost_per...esc/normalized

[Karl]

Bahahahahaha...

Any more questions about what Lucic brings to the team?
The big difference between Chris Neil and Lucic is that Neil hasn't scored more than 16 goals in an entire season over a 1000+ game career. Lucic is a regular contributor in scoring, a net front presence of and he is 15th in the league in hits.

#oilerpositives

As if Lucic being marginally better than Chris Neil is anything to be proud of.

Then again the Real Deal isn't much better right now than the both of them either, so I guess there's that.

[Redlan]

As long as the Flames are winning, I really do not care about Neal's production at this point. I do expect that when needed; either down the stretch or in the playoffs, that he proves his worth.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Redlan

As long as the Flames are winning, I really do not care about Neal's production at this point. I do expect that when needed; either down the stretch or in the playoffs, that he proves his worth when needed.

I do because he's not supposed to be looking like a player who's on his last legs already and not even able to play out the remainder of his retirement contract.

He's supposed to be better than that. Expectations for Neal need to be higher than this.

Unless you think he's done, which I don't think you think he is and I don't think that he is done either.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Redlan

As long as the Flames are winning, I really do not care about Neal's production at this point. I do expect that when needed; either down the stretch or in the playoffs, that he proves his worth.

If Neal was proving his worth, the Flames likely have at least another 2-3 wins on the season, looking at how many games were lost due to lack of secondary scoring. That puts them fighting with TB for the league lead instead of in a 3 horse race with Vegas and SJ for the pacific division. Neal has hurt and is hurting the Flames with his play, I'd rather his spot go to one of the AHL callups who at least would have some motivation

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Neal has hurt and is hurting the Flames with his play.

This. And the fact that some people are okay with this or don't care about Neal's lack of production is very mind boggling.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If Neal was proving his worth, the Flames likely have at least another 2-3 wins on the season, looking at how many games were lost due to lack of secondary scoring. That puts them fighting with TB for the league lead instead of in a 3 horse race with Vegas and SJ for the pacific division. Neal has hurt and is hurting the Flames with his play, I'd rather his spot go to one of the AHL callups who at least would have some motivation

That's some pretty good speculating you are doing. In order for the needle to be moved like that, not only does Neal have to score more, it has to be in the particular games that needed secondary scoring (in other words, where the Flames were shut down by the other team's defensive play or good goaltending). Games in which Backlund, et al also didn't score I guess. Does a Neal goal win those games? Sure, I guess. But that's getting mighty speculative.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's some pretty good speculating you are doing. In order for the needle to be moved like that, not only does Neal have to score more, it has to be in the particular games that needed secondary scoring (in other words, where the Flames were shut down by the other team's defensive play or good goaltending). Games in which Backlund, et al also didn't score I guess. Does a Neal goal win those games? Sure, I guess. But that's getting mighty speculative.

But regardless, the problem is way deeper than that.

The biggest problem is that not only is Neal not producing, but he's also usually looking absolutely terrible for the most part AND his general crappy play this year is so bad he is clearly dragging down any line and anyone that he plays with.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's some pretty good speculating you are doing. In order for the needle to be moved like that, not only does Neal have to score more, it has to be in the particular games that needed secondary scoring (in other words, where the Flames were shut down by the other team's defensive play or good goaltending). Games in which Backlund, et al also didn't score I guess. Does a Neal goal win those games? Sure, I guess. But that's getting mighty speculative.

I’m very confused, are you suggesting that James Neals goal output has absolutely no bearing on the flames win/loss record? ...and that if he scored say 10 more goals (to this point) then the Flames would likely have had no additional wins or OTL’s

Why are the Flames spending an incremental $7+ million on a player whose performances (good or bad) you think are so inconsequential to team success.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Karl

I do because he's not supposed to be looking like a player who's on his last legs already and not even able to play out the remainder of his retirement contract.

He's supposed to be better than that. Expectations for Neal need to be higher than this.

Unless you think he's done, which I don't think you think he is and I don't think that he is done either.

100% correct. I find there’s a lot of short sighted thinking in this thread. The content with Neal crowd is akin to a leaky basement. You don’t really care about it until it either floods the basement or crumbles the foundation.

You have to pay attention now because the problem will eventually rear its ugly haad. I remember seeing tons of “once he gets 1, the flood gates will open.” I knew that wasn’t going to be the case because he hasn’t shown any kind of dominant ability on a regular basis. He doesn’t drive play and create scoring chances on a regular basis.

At best, he’s good for the occasional goal going forward, but even then, he’ll always be dependent on someone getting him the puck in a good scoring position. That’s unfortunate, because there’s less than a handful of players on this team that actually have that ability and even worse, he hasn’t gelled with those said players.

I can only hope that Treliving isn’t just sitting on his hands hoping and praying that Neal will just flip miraculously flip a switch and tranform into a completely different player. Surely he can see the personnel problems with the PP2 unit and that the constant bottom 6 line juggling isn’t a good sign this deep into the season.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

I’m very confused, are you suggesting that James Neals goal output has absolutely no bearing on the flames win/loss record? ...and that if he scored say 10 more goals (to this point) then the Flames would likely have had no additional wins or OTL’s

Why are the Flames spending an incremental $7+ million on a player whose performances (good or bad) you think are so inconsequential to team success.

I’ve said it in the past, the fanbase and organization have to collectively increase our standards if we ever want to be an annual contender. The whole, “we’re winning so it’s all good” attitude is insanely short sighted. The Knights and Sharks are essentially in a dead heat and an average week or 2 could send as back to #3 in the division.

The truth is, with out James Neal and Mike Smith, this team could honestly be where Tampa is. They have no passengers right now and that’s why they’re at the top with no one else in the rear view mirror. There should always be accountability regardless. Even Allan Walsh is calling for it, most of his tweets are actually veiled shots at James Neal and co.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

100% correct. I find there’s a lot of short sighted thinking in this thread. The content with Neal crowd is akin to a leaky basement. You don’t really care about it until it either floods the basement or crumbles the foundation.

You have to pay attention now because the problem will eventually rear its ugly haad. I remember seeing tons of “once he gets 1, the flood gates will open.” I knew that wasn’t going to be the case because he hasn’t shown any kind of dominant ability on a regular basis. He doesn’t drive play and create scoring chances on a regular basis.

At best, he’s good for the occasional goal going forward, but even then, he’ll always be dependent on someone getting him the puck in a good scoring position. That’s unfortunate, because there’s less than a handful of players on this team that actually have that ability and even worse, he hasn’t gelled with those said players.

I can only hope that Treliving isn’t just sitting on his hands hoping and praying that Neal will just flip miraculously flip a switch and tranform into a completely different player. Surely he can see the personnel problems with the PP2 unit and that the constant bottom 6 line juggling isn’t a good sign this deep into the season.

Sure but the James Neal solution lies almost entirely with Neal himself, the coaching staff and to some extent, the team's leadership.

Because I can't think of anything practical that Treliving can do about it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

100% correct. I find there’s a lot of short sighted thinking in this thread. The content with Neal crowd is akin to a leaky basement. You don’t really care about it until it either floods the basement or crumbles the foundation.

You have to pay attention now because the problem will eventually rear its ugly haad. I remember seeing tons of “once he gets 1, the flood gates will open.” I knew that wasn’t going to be the case because he hasn’t shown any kind of dominant ability on a regular basis. He doesn’t drive play and create scoring chances on a regular basis.

At best, he’s good for the occasional goal going forward, but even then, he’ll always be dependent on someone getting him the puck in a good scoring position. That’s unfortunate, because there’s less than a handful of players on this team that actually have that ability and even worse, he hasn’t gelled with those said players.

I can only hope that Treliving isn’t just sitting on his hands hoping and praying that Neal will just flip miraculously flip a switch and tranform into a completely different player. Surely he can see the personnel problems with the PP2 unit and that the constant bottom 6 line juggling isn’t a good sign this deep into the season.

Neal is a sunk cost. No one is content with him but some realize there isn't a whole lot that can be done. Whining daily isn't exactly a solution. Is anyone going to take him in trade? Seems highly unlikely. So basically the only option you have is to hope he gets going. I think you confuse being content with not needing to beat a dead horse. EVERYONE knows Neal is playing like crap. Somehow you think whining about it daily on the internet is magically going to create a solution? Realistically there doesn't seem to be many options. It is what it is at this point so it seems more logical to enjoy all the success the team is having and spend less time focusing on really the only thing going wrong.