[News] Flames recall Gillies. Rittich day to day with lower body injury.

[Locke]

At least the Red Wings are terrible, so we've got that going for us, which is nice.

We knew Smith was going to play again eventually, it may as well be now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I'm not saying he's let in goals as bad as Smith has this year. I'm saying he's let in goals that were similar to goals that Smith let in that people said were bad. They weren't bad but were labeled bad when Smith let them in.

No he hasn’t. :-)

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Sure, but his numbers of late have been better. I think Darren Haynes tweet above that KFF posted sums it up pretty good.

The tweet was a bit of number trickery though, as he played 2 great games at the end of November. You drop those 2 November games out of the sample, and look at how he performed in December, and he has an .899 SV%.

He's an .889 and .714 in his last 2 starts.

He hasn't turned a corner.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The Flames can and will win with Smith, if the team plays to their potential in front of him.

Nothing to see here.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

IMO, stats in the A are irrelevant. Maybe they have been having him work on a particular part of his game. He has shown that he can start an NHL game.

Sorry I disagree. Statistics measure performance.

The part of his game he is likely working on involves stopping pucks from going in the net. Pretty hard to spin his performance into a guy that is capable of giving a quality NHL start right now but if you have something specific from his play this year that would indicate the contrary, I'm willing to listen.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

First of all, yes, the piling on has been over the top. And yes, every goalie let's in bad goals.

But there are bad goals - loses his angle, doesn't get set, just doesn't read the puck off the stick - and then there are BAD goals - 50 ft wrist shot goes right through the goalie. And it is the rate at which those really egregious ones occur that matters. And unfortunately, the rate at which Smith has been letting in the really egregious ones has been a problem.

And that is going to cause people to react to every soft goal.

That's not the point I'm getting at. When Smith lets in a bad goal he deserves criticism. But the same type of goal on either goalie is either a bad goal or not. If you're going to say that Rittich had no chance on it then neither did Smith.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sorry I disagree. Statistics measure performance.

The part of his game he is likely working on involves stopping pucks from going in the net. Pretty hard to spin his performance into a guy that is capable of giving a quality NHL start right now but if you have something specific from his play this year that would indicate the contrary, I'm willing to listen.

Stats measure performance - in a performance league. But stats don't necessarily mean as much in a development league.

There are lots of examples of players having mediocre stats in the A, but being able to come to the bigs and contribute.

Also, Gillies has actually played in the NHL, so we know that he is capable.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Inferno

That's not the point I'm getting at. When Smith lets in a bad goal he deserves criticism. But the same type of goal on either goalie is either a bad goal or not. If you're going to say that Rittich had no chance on it then neither did Smith.

You’ve been shouting about this for a while now.

Probably best to put the time in bringing up examples.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

The tweet was a bit of number trickery though, as he played 2 great games at the end of November. You drop those 2 November games out of the sample, and look at how he performed in December, and he has an .899 SV%.

He's an .889 and .714 in his last 2 starts.

He hasn't turned a corner.

Not saying he has turned the corner. Saying that maybe he is at a point where he can give you adequate back up minutes. Rittich is the starter.

Smith has been a built up and broken down a few times this season. I still like to use the day after the Pittsburgh game as the reset for the team, goalies included. In that time period he is .901 with a GAA of 2.49. I get his game is inconsistent and can be a roller coaster. Just saying I would rather play him than Gillies who has struggled as when this year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Inferno

That's not the point I'm getting at. When Smith lets in a bad goal he deserves criticism. But the same type of goal on either goalie is either a bad goal or not. If you're going to say that Rittich had no chance on it then neither did Smith.

But most people aren't saying that. Most fans are acknowledging missed saves for Rittich. The difference is that people understand that all goalies miss some saves, which is forgivable. But when a goalie misses too many of them, they (all) become unforgivable.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

The tweet was a bit of number trickery though, as he played 2 great games at the end of November. You drop those 2 November games out of the sample, and look at how he performed in December, and he has an .899 SV%.



He's an .889 and .714 in his last 2 starts.



He hasn't turned a corner.

You can’t just disregard numbers that don’t fit your narrative though. If you ignore the Oilers last 2 seasons they are a playoff team.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

You can’t just disregard numbers that don’t fit your narrative though. If you ignore the Oilers last 2 seasons they are a playoff team.

I chuckled. That is taking hyperbole to the next level. Oilers are rarely a good example unless it has something to do about being no good.

[Split98]

There is also a side to the 'Move Past Smith' party that will be 1000% happy with a great performance and will jump right on-board the optimism train whenever it's powered by results.

I truly would like Gillies to start this one. I understand why they haven't pulled the plug on the '36yo Mike Smith re-building his career' dream, but I'm anxious for them to find a way to give Rittich nights off for the rest of the year here. We all remember the Kipper era, so we should remember how valuable it is to have a backup that can win their schedule of games. When it comes crunch time, and you need those 2 (or 6+) points back, that schedule becomes more and more heavy on your #1.

From everything we've seen, and most worryingly how brief his most recent 'return to form' was, it is more likely that we will get better backup goaltending with Smith out of the lineup and at some point a decision has to be made. With Smith's propensity to subtract 2 points from our potential year-end total all by himself it's a matter of how much rope everyone is willing to give.

Mike Smith doing well is far less important than the Flames doing well to me - and Smith in the net is a worse option than a very large amount of very cheap (and potentially already on our payroll) options.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Stats measure performance - in a performance league. But stats don't necessarily mean as much in a development league.

There are lots of examples of players having mediocre stats in the A, but being able to come to the bigs and contribute.

Also, Gillies has actually played in the NHL, so we know that he is capable.

There are far more examples of players who don't put up good stats in a development league not being able to cut it in the performance league, versus ones who don't but then excel in the NHL.

True, AHL stats aren't the be all end all, but they are good indicator of performance. If Gillies is actually ready to play in the NHL, he will be an exception, not the norm based on his AHL stats. His performance in the AHL to date is indicator that he's likely not ready to play in the NHL, but you are correct in that anything can happen

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You’ve been shouting about this for a while now.

Probably best to put the time in bringing up examples.

Chaisson's goal the first game against the Oilers. The defense got blamed like they should.

Smith let in a similar goal against both Chicago and Philly and people were on his case about not having his paddle on the ice or his five hole closed.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

You can’t just disregard numbers that don’t fit your narrative though. If you ignore the Oilers last 2 seasons they are a playoff team.

When speaking to someone’s performance of late, I don’t think it’s misleading to disregard the 2 oldest games from a sample.

Smith was awful in December. Haynes was able to drag up his numbers by including a couple of November games.

[Bingo]

Smith will be on the roster to the end of the season.

I'm hoping he becomes a decent backup and that's where my expectations lie. Rittich is the better goaltender now, and I don't think that will change. But I'm not actively hoping against an improvement for Smith just so I can say I told you so for a season long argument about the guy having lost it.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

There are far more examples of players who don't put up good stats in a development league not being able to cut it in the performance league, versus ones who don't but then excel in the NHL.

True, AHL stats aren't the be all end all, but they are good indicator of performance. If Gillies is actually ready to play in the NHL, he will be an exception, not the norm based on his AHL stats. His performance in the AHL to date is indicator that he's likely not ready to play in the NHL, but you are correct in that anything can happen

Maybe it's just me, but it's more of an 'I can only hope...' than 'Gillies is definitely the better option'.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But most people aren't saying that. Most fans are acknowledging missed saves for Rittich.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. People have but I wouldn't say most.

And I've already pointed out that Rittich has earned the right to not be ragged on when he does let in a goal he should have stopped while Smith hasn't.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Smith will be on the roster to the end of the season.

I'm hoping he becomes a decent backup and that's where my expectations lie. Rittich is the better goaltender now, and I don't think that will change. But I'm not actively hoping against an improvement for Smith just so I can say I told you so for a season long argument about the guy having lost it.

I hope no one is

And that mindset is exactly why I even wrote the post I did