Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by New Era

Not when you follow that up with five goals on 24 shots against one of the worst teams in the NHL. Come on, starters are pretty consistent in their play. Smith hasn't been consistent in quite some time.

And since the Pittsburgh game has started less games than Rittich. He isn't a starter anymore. What Smith is, is adequate for the role he is playing now.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The debate seems to boil down to the fact some people don’t hate Smith enough.

Merely feeling he’s underperforming but is the best backup option available at present is insufficient.

Anything less than fire him into the sun, regardless of what we’ll do for a backup after that or the acquisition cost of a better backup, and you’re a koolaid drinking fool wearing blinders.

You want to really stir things up, start advocating for Peters to play Smith as a starter to let him work himself out of his current tribulations.

"Smith lets in a hundred goals a game! He also killed a dog."

"Well, that's not actually true, while his save percentage is..."

"OH SO YOU LOVE DOG KILLERS HUH???"

^ This thread, basically.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ That kind of contribution doesn’t really help then, does it?

There are some discussions within that are quite more reasonable.

Accepting that Smith is struggling, what should the team do, with the levers at their disposal?
What can they do?
What do 6 wins in a row mean?
How about 6 wins with a bunch of context?
Can you expect at 36 that he can bounce back or is he done? What are you seeing that leads you to this?
Is Rittich the starter now and is that enough of an action taken by leadership?
What is an acceptable workload for Rittich?
Do teams play a backup more due to starter fatigue or overall risk mitigation?
Are we all schmucks or just some of us?

[FlamesAddiction]

I just don't like the argument that it's fine if Smith is bad because Rittich will continue to offset that. That's not a plan as much as it is a hope.

Rittich has been good so far, but it is risky to assume he can keep playing at the same level as the second half grind starts. By waiting, we risk over playing our hand and paying more at the trade deadline.

Maybe there is no deal to be made, but Treliving should be trying hard IMO. Windows are short in a 31 team league with such relative parity.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Robbob

And since the Pittsburgh game has started less games than Rittich. He isn't a starter anymore. What Smith is, is adequate for the role he is playing now.

As Deluxe has pointed out, no, Smith is not adequate. His win-loss record is greatly helped by the fact that Flames have won 4-5 games with him in net because they pounded the opposition offensively. If he got Rittich level of offensive support in those games, the Flames have another 4-5 losses. I would say he is in the bottom third of backups in this league, and for a team like the Flames, that isn't adequate.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

As Deluxe has pointed out, no, Smith is not adequate. His win-loss record is greatly helped by the fact that Flames have won 4-5 games with him in net because they pounded the opposition offensively. If he got Rittich level of offensive support in those games, the Flames have another 4-5 losses. I would say he is in the bottom third of backups in this league, and for a team like the Flames, that isn't adequate.

Smith has won 3 games where he let in 4 or more. The other "poundings" he still had good save percentages, let in 3 or less, and faced a goodly amount of shots (25 or more).

[squiggs96]

I was poking around on hockey-reference.com. There is a fancy stat called goals saved above average (GSAA), which is the goals a goalie prevents given his save percentage and shots faced vs. the league average save percentage on the same number of shots. John Gibson leads the league at 18.07. Rittich is 8th at 9.74. Of the 65 qualified goalies, Mike Smith's GSAA has a negative 10.46 and ranks 63rd.


There's also a fun stat called Really Bad Start (RBS). Mike Smith is tied for 2nd with 6 of them. Rittich has 2. Casey DeSmith in Pittsburgh has played in 24 games, starting 20 of them, and doesn't have a RBS yet.

[jlh2640]

Rittich is 1, Smith is 2, Smith wants his old spot back then he netter stop letting in soft goals and play well. If he doesnt then we are riding the Rittich train

[kukkudo]

I think Smith knows his role for the remainder of the season. Lead and guide Rittich to become a starter in the league. Smith will get opportunities here and there.

[Bingo]

I think getting the season past Christmas is key. You can always explain away experimentation before the new year, but after that it's stretch drive to a trade deadline, and getting ready for the playoffs.

With Rittich's play against Winnipeg last night you'd have to think they already know that he's the starter.

Smith isn't on a contract where they need to salvage him ... he's gone in four months. Add in his age and I'm guessing they are well aware that the age and the change to goaltending equipment seems to have pushed him out of the starter role for the rest of his career; whatever that is.

To date the busiest goaltender is Fleury with 86% of the Knight's minutes. The top ten is averaging 77% of their team's minutes.

The Flames have 44 games to go on their schedule, call Rittich the starter and give him 77% of the starts ... or 33. That means 11 more Mike Smith starts to the end of the season. If Rittich falters at least Smith is in the mix of a game in four and can see if he can re-find it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think getting the season past Christmas is key. You can always explain away experimentation before the new year, but after that it's stretch drive to a trade deadline, and getting ready for the playoffs.

With Rittich's play against Winnipeg last night you'd have to think they already know that he's the starter.

Smith isn't on a contract where they need to salvage him ... he's gone in four months. Add in his age and I'm guessing they are well aware that the age and the change to goaltending equipment seems to have pushed him out of the starter role for the rest of his career; whatever that is.

To date the busiest goaltender is Fleury with 86% of the Knight's minutes. The top ten is averaging 77% of their team's minutes.

The Flames have 44 games to go on their schedule, call Rittich the starter and give him 77% of the starts ... or 33. That means 11 more Mike Smith starts to the end of the season. If Rittich falters at least Smith is in the mix of a game in four and can see if he can re-find it.

I think they have known that since before the last road trip.

When you give a guy 3 games in 4 days (even if Smith was sore) ...you have anointed him the starter without saying it out loud.

[868904]

I think if you look at it as Rittich as the No. 1 and Smith as the backup and ignore the salaries (it's a sunk cost anyways), then the goaltending situation is not bad.

What do you expect from your back up?

You expect him to win more than he loses - check
You expect him to give your no. 1 some rest - check
You expect him to support your no. 1 - check
You expect him to be good in the room - check
You expect him to steal the occasional game - check

Smith really is the perfect backup for a young goalie like Rittich.

Just have to hope that Rittich can keep this up.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 868904

I think if you look at it as Rittich as the No. 1 and Smith as the backup and ignore the salaries (it's a sunk cost anyways), then the goaltending situation is not bad.

Smith really is the perfect backup for a young goalie like Rittich.

Just have to hope that Rittich can keep this up.

Oh oh, now you've done it.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by 868904

I think if you look at it as Rittich as the No. 1 and Smith as the backup and ignore the salaries (it's a sunk cost anyways), then the goaltending situation is not bad.

What do you expect from your back up?

You expect him to win more than he loses - check
You expect him to give your no. 1 some rest - check
You expect him to support your no. 1 - check
You expect him to be good in the room - check
You expect him to steal the occasional game - check

Smith really is the perfect backup for a young goalie like Rittich.

Just have to hope that Rittich can keep this up.

I could be the back up goalie and "give your no. 1 some rest.

I could also be good in the room.

Support your no. 1? Check, I can do that.

Your description of what a back up goalie needs to do would make every back up acceptable.

[868904]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I could be the back up goalie and "give your no. 1 some rest.

I could also be good in the room.

Support your no. 1? Check, I can do that.

Your description of what a back up goalie needs to do would make every back up acceptable.

I guess you weren't around during the Kipper era when they cycled through backups who couldn't do any of those things I listed.

Plus, you only checked 2 of those things, you need to check them all to be on par with Smith. Sorry, you aren't suitable.

I'm not saying i'm happy with Smith, but it just doesn't make sense RIGHT NOW to make a move. Bringing in another "back up" quality goalie isn't going to make things better, it's just making a change for the sake of making a change. And if Smith is as popular in the room as we are being told, then all it would do is upset the players.

I don't think they are at the point where the players want Smith out. They probably are just happy with giving Rittich the ball and having Smith tutor and support him, which is what the situation is right now.

Bringing in a Chad Johnson or Anton Khudobin, or Scott Darling or Corey Schneider isn't an upgrade. It's a lateral move. Smith has just as good a chance of finding his game than those other goalies and we've even seen this year that Smith can still get hot and be unbeatable for a game or two.

If Rittich starts to falter, then the Flames WILL have to look at bringing in another goalie. I don't see the need to bring in another back up right now.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think getting the season past Christmas is key. You can always explain away experimentation before the new year, but after that it's stretch drive to a trade deadline, and getting ready for the playoffs.

With Rittich's play against Winnipeg last night you'd have to think they already know that he's the starter.

Smith isn't on a contract where they need to salvage him ... he's gone in four months. Add in his age and I'm guessing they are well aware that the age and the change to goaltending equipment seems to have pushed him out of the starter role for the rest of his career; whatever that is.

To date the busiest goaltender is Fleury with 86% of the Knight's minutes. The top ten is averaging 77% of their team's minutes.

The Flames have 44 games to go on their schedule, call Rittich the starter and give him 77% of the starts ... or 33. That means 11 more Mike Smith starts to the end of the season. If Rittich falters at least Smith is in the mix of a game in four and can see if he can re-find it.

Three out of every four starts. That is about the ratio I want to see. A) he has earned it, and B) we need to see if he can carry a heavier load (without actually burning him out before the playoffs even start).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Three out of every four starts. That is about the ratio I want to see. A) he has earned it, and B) we need to see if he can carry a heavier load (without actually burning him out before the playoffs even start).

I am more comfortable with a 2:1 split. That would have Rittich finish his second NHL season with just over 50 games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think they have known that since before the last road trip.

When you give a guy 3 games in 4 days (even if Smith was sore) ...you have anointed him the starter without saying it out loud.

Very true.

And the two marquee games specifically.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 868904

I think if you look at it as Rittich as the No. 1 and Smith as the backup and ignore the salaries (it's a sunk cost anyways), then the goaltending situation is not bad.

What do you expect from your back up?

You expect him to win more than he loses - check
You expect him to give your no. 1 some rest - check
You expect him to support your no. 1 - check
You expect him to be good in the room - check
You expect him to steal the occasional game - check

Smith really is the perfect backup for a young goalie like Rittich.

Just have to hope that Rittich can keep this up.

Agreed.

And unlike most backups Smith has done it, and with that there's a chance he could rise up and be a starter again in case of injury or Rittich hitting a wall.

I don't think that's the case with most backups.

[no this isn't saying Smith WILL rise up and become a starter]

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 868904

I think if you look at it as Rittich as the No. 1 and Smith as the backup and ignore the salaries (it's a sunk cost anyways), then the goaltending situation is not bad.

What do you expect from your back up?

You expect him to win more than he loses - check
You expect him to give your no. 1 some rest - check
You expect him to support your no. 1 - check
You expect him to be good in the room - check
You expect him to steal the occasional game - check

Smith really is the perfect backup for a young goalie like Rittich.

Just have to hope that Rittich can keep this up.

I am not sure that I would agree with the first being a "check". He has won slightly more than he lost so far, but I am not sure I would say we can expect that as the season grinds on and the team faces inevitable adversity. When trying to predict future outcomes, past performance is only worth so much when dealing with a depreciating asset.

There is another very important attribute that you didn't include. A good back up should be able to take over and carry the team for a few weeks if the starter struggles or is injured. Rittich has been lights out, but is still unproven over the course of a full season. A good back up should be insurance, and I don't feel that is Smith at this point.