The Great Flames Goalie Debate Thread

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Most people see what they want to see.


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Most people want to see weak goals? :-)

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by redforever

Judging from his lack of positioning, his poor lateral movement, and his desperate flip-flop style, I would say that his early play is closer to his standard.

Yeah but Sigalet said he's doing awesome in practice!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Most people want to see weak goals? :-)

When it comes to Smith, sadly, some people relish seeing him get lit up.

But my point is that these unquantifiable things like “lack of positioning,” or “poor lateral movement” have a lot more to do with perceptions and expectations than actual performance. Smith struggled to begin the season, but for a couple weeks now has looked very much like the same goalie who single-handedly won games last Fall.


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[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

When it comes to Smith, sadly, some people relish seeing him get lit up.

But my point is that these unquantifiable things like “lack of positioning,” or “poor lateral movement” have a lot more to do with perceptions and expectations than actual performance. Smith struggled to begin the season, but for a couple weeks now has looked very much like the same goalie who single-handedly won games last Fall.


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Bad take. I hate seeing him let in weak goals, but he does it nearly every game he suits up for. He's old. He's washed up and injury prone. I don't "relish" any of this.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Bad take. I hate seeing him let in weak goals, but he does it nearly every game he suits up for. He's old. He's washed up and injury prone. I don't "relish" any of this.

You may not but it's pretty obvious that some on here do.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Inferno

You may not but it's pretty obvious that some on here do.

Lol. Fans of the Flames don't take joy when Smith gets lit up, c'mon lets get real here. People want the team to win, and Smith generally doesn't help with that in the most important position. People are just fed up with him.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But my point is that these unquantifiable things like “lack of positioning,” or “poor lateral movement” have a lot more to do with perceptions and expectations than actual performance.

You could say this about anyone’s take on anyone in the league.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Inferno

You may not but it's pretty obvious that some on here do.

Who then? You and Textcritic should name some names and clear the air.

This is the same narrative as posters who were accused of "wanting the Flames to lose so Gulutzan gets fired"

It's a garbage take. Everyone and their dog knows Smith is washed up.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Lol. Fans of the Flames don't take joy when Smith gets lit up, c'mon lets get real here. People want the team to win, and Smith generally doesn't help with that in the most important position. People are just fed up with him.

Some do, don't kid yourself. They might want the Flames to win but they don't want it to be with Smith in net.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Who then? You and Textcritic should name some names and clear the air.

This is the same narrative as posters who were accused of "wanting the Flames to lose so Gulutzan gets fired"

It's a garbage take. Everyone and their dog knows Smith is washed up.

I'm not going to call out specific people but it's pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't have a hate on for Smith. When you whine after a win about how he's going to start the next game because he won it's pretty obvious you don't want him to succeed.

It's not a garbage take. Like I said before, some people might want the Flames to win but they don't want it to be with Smith in net.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I'm not going to call out specific people but it's pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't have a hate on for Smith. When you whine after a win about how he's going to start the next game because he won it's pretty obvious you don't want him to succeed.

It's not a garbage take. Like I said before, people might want to Flames to win but they don't want it to be with Smith in net.

I agree some people whine about Smith's wins because he's got a chance of starting again. I sometimes think it's more about Rittich love than Smith hate, or at least a combination. I kind of saw similar things when Ferland succeeded (which some posters thought was bad for Bennett) or when Dube was playing well (which Czarnik fans disliked).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree some people whine about Smith's wins because he's got a chance of starting again. I sometimes think it's more about Rittich love than Smith hate, or at least a combination. I kind of saw similar things when Ferland succeeded (which some posters thought was bad for Bennett) or when Dube was playing well (which Czarnik fans disliked).

I don't love either. Neither IMO are number one goaltenders and I'm fine with rolling with the hot hand and switching when he falters but I would prefer that Rittich gets the majority of the home starts for the rest of the season and Smith get the majority of his starts on the road.

[Classic_Sniper]

There's a piece on the The Athletic right now that's grading the Canadian team's chances to win the Stanley Cup. We're sitting in the 3rd spot and one of the biggest reasons why is goaltending. Personally, I think if we played Rittich more, we'd probably be at #2 or even closer to #1.

Mike Smith is the one individual who has held this team back the most this season. His .888 sv% is incomprehensible for the amount of shots he faces on average. If Smith is still giving up softies by February and his sv% is still in the .880s, I think the team will need to find another goaltender because that's just not NHL quality goaltending you can trust. Even waiver pick up Curtis McElhinney is sporting a .920 goaltender with a 7-3-1 record with a non playoff team.

The chance to go deep into the playoffs hasn't come around often for this organization and there's no guarantee that it comes around next year either. So in my opinion, you strike the iron while it's hot, you have to be willing to cut bait on players who aren't getting it done even if it means hurting their feelings or whatever because if it means getting a sniff at the Stanley Cup, you have to do it.


https://theathletic.com/712426/2018/...e-stanley-cup/

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't love either. Neither IMO are number one goaltenders and I'm fine with rolling with the hot hand and switching when he falters but I would prefer that Rittich gets the majority of the home starts for the rest of the season and Smith get the majority of his starts on the road.

Yeah, I think this is the sensible approach to Flames goaltending right now, but with how things have gone I don't see how we can draw up plans on what ought to happen for the balance of the year. I anticipate that this thread is not going to fall from the first page of the forum—it's an ongoing issue, and one to which the resolution is seldom going to seem clear.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

There's a piece on the The Athletic right now that's grading the Canadian team's chances to win the Stanley Cup. We're sitting in the 3rd spot and one of the biggest reasons why is goaltending. Personally, I think if we played Rittich more, we'd probably be at #2 or even closer to #1.

https://theathletic.com/712426/2018/...e-stanley-cup/

I dont think any goalie gets us ranked above the Jets or Leafs. Not in the eyes of the media anyway.

[Northendzone]

i think that as fans we likely need to accept the fact that for the balance of the year this teams goalies will be Smith and BSD.

what the flames management likely has to do is start playing BSD more, and give him some rope.

i would suggest that the flames only make a trade for a goalie if one of smith or BSD get a medium or longer term injury. As it is unlikely the flames would be able to get a longer term goal tending answer from another team, without it really costing assets.

a trade at the deadline could be a consideration, but as noted earlier, most of the time it does not seem to work out, and once again, do you really want to give up cuirrent NHL assets to get a goalie?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I'm not going to call out specific people but it's pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't have a hate on for Smith. When you whine after a win about how he's going to start the next game because he won it's pretty obvious you don't want him to succeed.

It's not a garbage take. Like I said before, some people might want the Flames to win but they don't want it to be with Smith in net.

I don't relish Smith letting in ####ty goals. Do I find it frustrating that he starts and find it baffling that some people can defend him constantly no matter how terrible he has performed in general both this season and last half of last season? Yes. I do find that frustrating which is why I relish getting to take out my frustration at this team being down a goal or two when they shouldn't be. I wish that mike smith was a top 5 goalie in this league this season, that would have us sitting with 8 more points and tied for tops in the NHL with a game in hand on Tampa...

BUT smith is old, hasn't done anything in playoffs since 2012, and has league average numbers every year as a starter and last game let in one of the single worst goals I have ever seen.


I personally couldn't care less if mike smith succeeds or doesn't succeed as long as the flames are winning. BUT if he isn't succeeding then yeah I'm gonna have minimal patience for his ongoing struggles and I will express my discontent with a coaching staff who seems to think he still has "it" when to most observers, including those booing at the dome on wednesday night, he doesn't, at least not regularly enough to be a starting goalie.

And whining after a smith win where we win in spite of him or without him being anything special, is totally reasonable because in my opinion, Smith hasn't shown any consistency and the risks of a soft goal are so much higher than with Rittich. I would never want the flames to lose a game just so smith doesn't start the next one, but I sure as hell can hope that the coaches see they have one goalie, who although unproven, passes the eye test, and one who fails it miserably most nights.

[Manhattanboy]

I don't recall even back in the days of Hiller, Ramo and Elliott worrying about every shot on goal.

With Smith it just seems like the default position is goal.

[Psytic]

I'm reluctant to do anything right now. Bob and Talbot look like crap this year. The cap Bob would take up is better spent somewhere else imo. Everyone available by trade is just "okay" at this stage in my opinion or getting old unless we want to give up some major assets which I don't think we should be doing right now. I could see Chicago unloading Corey Crawford like some had mentioned for their rebuild but hes not that young either. A tandem of Crawford and Salt Bae would be NHL average goaltending at a decent cap hit though.

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I dont think any goalie gets us ranked above the Jets or Leafs. Not in the eyes of the media anyway.

Take a look at this chart in the tweet. With league average goaltending the Flames would be 2nd in the league right now.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1073316874010669056

https://twitter.com/user/status/1073317481060667392

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I dont think any goalie gets us ranked above the Jets or Leafs. Not in the eyes of the media anyway.

TOR.: 21 - 10 - 1, 114 GF, 89 GA
CAL.: 20 - 10 - 2, 113 GF, 89 GA
WPG: 20 - 9 - 2, 111 GF, 86 GA

After 31/32 games, those stats are as identical as you're going to get.

If we're 3rd because of goaltending, then with better goaltending we must clearly be the best of the 3 teams.