[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I didn't know Ferland was out of the lineup. How long? What is the story?

Concussion I believe

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Nailed it, can't believe I'm so smart.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Hes

Concussion

That's a shame. I like that guy.

[GioforPM]

He's been out for maybe two weeks now? He hasn't passed through the protocol yet, and with his history, it's very worrisome.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by driveway

So, idly thinking here, Ferland is a UFA at the end of this season. Let's say he hits the market.

What would you re-sign him for? One 20g 20a season, this season on pace for 37g 14a ... let's say he finishes with 30g 20a.

He'll be 27 at the end of this season ... if he DOES get 30 goals he'll be expensive, and probably looking to cash in with one big contract. ... could we find a way to convince him to take around what Lindholm got? Would it be worth it?

I would say he is a younger version of Patrick Maroon, so around 1.8-2.5 million max.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lindholm over Ferland was always obvious to me, both have good seasons.
Hamilton over Hanifin was the gap discussion and it's certainly narrowed quicker than I expected.

I was never a fan of Hamilton, I felt his points helped to cover up his poor defensive play and he always had those rumors of being difficult in the room swirling around. It only took a few games to see that Hanifin is a far better defensive player, and now that he's actually putting some points up this trade is a no brainer of a win


EDIT: Nice to see that I'm consistent, https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=1015

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I would say he is a younger version of Patrick Maroon, so around 1.8-2.5 million max.

Someone is definitely going to offer him $3-4M/yr

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I would say he is a younger version of Patrick Maroon, so around 1.8-2.5 million max.

Lmao someone will surely offer Ferland at least $3M at absolute minimum

[codynw]

Yea I was beyond wrong about this trade. I miss Ferland(though Lindholm is better) and Fox is still a wildcard (even if he wasn't gonna sign, I think he held more value than just being a throw in), but overall this trade looks like a huge win for Calgary. I never should've doubted the wizard.

[btimbit]

Yeah count me in with people that couldn't be happier with this trade. I'm a huge, HUGE fan of Ferland but Hanifin and Lindholm have vastly outplayed Ferland and Hamilton.

I selfishly hope Ferland has a meh rest of the year so the Flames can sign him for the middle 6 next summer. But if he's healthy soon I hope he lights it up and gets paid. Great guy

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by codynw

Yea I was beyond wrong about this trade. I miss Ferland(though Lindholm is better) and Fox is still a wildcard (even if he wasn't gonna sign, I think he held more value than just being a throw in), but overall this trade looks like a huge win for Calgary. I never should've doubted the wizard.

Can people stop with the term "throw in"? It's so silly. Every piece of a deal is what it took to make the deal. Throw in would mean that you take Fox out of the deal and you still get Hanifin and Lindholm.

If that was the case Brad wouldn't have put him in the deal. Fact is Fox had a subjective value, a subjective value that ultimately got this deal done. Brad didn't leave some of Fox's value on the table because he felt like throwing him in, he USED his value.

[Bingo]

Hamilton ...

the hockey coach in me doesn't like his kind of player. He looks lazy too often, he lets his partner do a lot of the work. He's not quick to scrums. He doesn't do a great job of clearing the net after rebounds.

But I can't find that gotcha stat that points out what he doesn't wrong.

Heat maps show he gets burned more than Giordano did as his half wall is "red" and Giordano's is always "blue" season to season, but he's not just shots on net. Looking at CF/60 attempts he's off the charts as I'd expect, but he's also top 15 in terms of blueliners for CA/60 meaning he and Slavin don't give up much either.

Is he lucky to have good partners? Is he just quiet good defensively?

[Enoch Root]

Hamilton was lazy defensively. And he was often soft.

Lindholm is the best player in the trade. And it won't be long before Hanifin is considered the 2nd best.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hamilton ...

the hockey coach in me doesn't like his kind of player. He looks lazy too often, he lets his partner do a lot of the work. He's not quick to scrums. He doesn't do a great job of clearing the net after rebounds.

Us normie non coaches don't like it either.

But I can't find that gotcha stat that points out what he doesn't wrong.

Maybe there isn't one.

Heat maps show he gets burned more than Giordano did as his half wall is "red" and Giordano's is always "blue" season to season, but he's not just shots on net. Looking at CF/60 attempts he's off the charts as I'd expect, but he's also top 15 in terms of blueliners for CA/60 meaning he and Slavin don't give up much either.

Perhaps these just aren't applicable in this situation.

Is he lucky to have good partners? Is he just quiet good defensively?

Yes, no.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by LWcrowfoot

Perhaps these just aren't applicable in this situation.

Kind of hard to come up with a situation where being top 15 in limiting the opposition from a shot attempt isn't a good thing.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Kind of hard to come up with a situation where being top 15 in limiting the opposition from a shot attempt isn't a good thing.

Could it just be inconsistency? Aka he’s quite good on average but tends to make bad mistakes that really hang his team out to dry. So the good events outnumber the bad events (as the stats bear out) but his mistakes lead to really high danger scoring chances against? I’m curious what the delta is between his regular defensive stats vs high danger stats. If the high danger rate is higher than regular rates that might support my conclusion l.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Could it just be inconsistency? Aka he’s quite good on average but tends to make bad mistakes that really hang his team out to dry. So the good events outnumber the bad events (as the stats bear out) but his mistakes lead to really high danger scoring chances against? I’m curious what the delta is between his regular defensive stats vs high danger stats. If the high danger rate is higher than regular rates that might support my conclusion l.

I think this is a big part of people's assessments of his defensive play. Plus the fact that he's so smooth that he doesn't look like he puts out effort.

I do think he over-relied on his reach a bit, hence some stick infractions.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Someone is definitely going to offer him $3-4M/yr

Actually more money, IMO.

Ryan, 31, is at 3.5 per at 3 years. He is an effective bottom six player.

Ferland will be 27 ,as an UFA, with a lot more upside. If he gets and remains healthy, he will be looking at 4.5 -5 mil long term.

Brouwer money with inflation and cap increase.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by timbit

Actually more money, IMO.

Ryan, 31, is at 3.5 per at 3 years. He is an effective bottom six player.

Ferland will be 27 ,as an UFA, with a lot more upside. If he gets and remains healthy, he will be looking at 4.5 -5 mil long term.

Brouwer money with inflation and cap increase.

Buyout Neal, sign Ferland

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I like the trade. Hamilton and ferland are both coming off career years playing with franchise players, so Tre is selling high on both of them.

Lindholm is a legit top 6, a RH shot, a better two way player and younger than ferland. He played with Aho and teravanen last year. Ferland only looked good with Monahan and Johnny last year and is a ufa next year. Lindholm is a giant upgrade for the organization.

Hanafin is four years younger than Hamilton and has had a better start to his career and has a higher ceiling. Has a better two-way game and higher hockey iq. Will be an awesome stabilizer to the second pairing to have an all-round defenseman like Gio is for the first pairing.

Flames gave up fox...but we all knew that not all four of valimaki, fox, Andersson and kylington we're going to lace up for the flames. This is amazing for a top-4 in the future...

Hannafin (21)
Valimaki (19)
Andersson (21)
Kylington (21)

This was my June 23 take on the deal. The only thing I'd change right now is that instead of "like the trade" I'd say "love the trade". Also I was a bit too harsh on ferland seeing that he's found another gear as well. And I called lindholm a legit top 6, when it might have been more accurate to call him a legit top 3. But being equally harsh on lindholm and ferly probably evened out the take.