2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors - Page 262 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

The Cobra · 12-03-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

However, we also have to look 3 to 4 years out. There is nothing there, with respect to continuing to supplement the core and keep the team on a plateau. So they need to replenish the cupboards.

When you have a team that can contend now in a cap world, you need to go all out to win now. 3-4 years down the road, when your UFA's will become more expensive and depth is hard to keep due to cost, those draft picks will likely help but won't be enough.

Spend it now, and try to win. of course there is no guarantee, but you need to increase your chances. Calgary may well be a legitimate goalie away from being a serious contender. They need to spend whatever it takes to get him.

Phagoof · 12-03-2018, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah i guess it all comes down to expectations.

If you believe this team is that close right now and another offensive finisher is what puts them over the top, then thats the way you go. Im, personally, not of that belief at this point.

I just believe that the G is the one area that they can address this offseason without trading picks or anything major off the roster which allows them to keep their offensive depth, defensive depth AND address the one glaring deficiency.

When will the team ever be closer then now? When we tank and get a 1st overall? Our core players have developed and are in their primes. Gio is having a Norris year. This is it, you go for it now. ie. I'd trade the farm for Panarin if the BJ's are going to move him at the deadline.

Flash Walken · 12-03-2018, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is really bizarre seeing the most vocal person on this site about/against trading picks, suddenly doing a complete 180 and saying we need to start going the other way. I think your disconnect comes down to not considering that picks pay dividends 4 years out, not now. And Treliving nailed it IMO.

No, I am being consistent.

You accumulate picks when you are bad and spend picks when you are good, and once your window to compete is over you trade good players for an abundance of picks and start over.

Honestly, when Gaudreau's contract is over I don't want the flames to re-sign him. I don't want to be the equiavlent of the ducks or what was the canucks or the Country Club flames years. I want the team to win now while they are good and tear down when they are bad.

If there is a 6'4 point producing centre out there to be had, I want him. If there is a hard nosed goal scoring winger out there to be had, I want them.

Evander Kane was moved last year for a conditional 1st and a conditional 4th. If that deal is out there the flames would be idiots not to pull the trigger with the roster in the shape it's in this year, not holding on so they can draft a guy at #22 overall who doesn't play his first game until Giordano's jersey gets added to forever a flame.

If there was any year to be pulling the trigger on a high priced pending UFA it is when the team is paying Tkachuk peanuts. Next year, this team doesn't have that flexibility anymore, and you're talking new contracts for Brodie and Hamonic on top of it.

This is the year.

Hockey-and_stuff · 12-03-2018, 02:02 PM

Anaheim almost never trades their first and they always have great young talent to supplement their stars.

I hate the team but they have a very sustainable model for keeping the talent high without blowing money in the UFA market.

transplant99 · 12-03-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagoof

When will the team ever be closer then now? When we tank and get a 1st overall? Our core players have developed and are in their primes. Gio is having a Norris year. This is it, you go for it now. ie. I'd trade the farm for Panarin if the BJ's are going to move him at the deadline.

Like most every other team...after some playoff experience? We have 3 rookies and another 21 YO...... JUST ON DEFENSE...who have never experienced NHL playoff atmosphere.

Unless you are suggesting this season is their last chance or something, patience and opportunity go hand in hand in this league.

Selling the farm for Panarin would be absolute folly.....this season.

Oling_Roachinen · 12-03-2018, 02:08 PM

In the 2016-2017 season they traded their 2017 first round draft for Eaves.* In 2016-2017 they also went to the conference finals.

Vinny01 · 12-03-2018, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagoof

When will the team ever be closer then now? When we tank and get a 1st overall? Our core players have developed and are in their primes. Gio is having a Norris year. This is it, you go for it now. ie. I'd trade the farm for Panarin if the BJ's are going to move him at the deadline.

Make that move and if the team loses in the first round pitchforks come out for Treliving quickly. If they lose in the first round while maintaining their assets it is a far less likely scenario.

The only trade that Treliving made when he went for it was the Hamonic deal and at least there we got him for 3 years on a sweetheart deal

Flash Walken · 12-03-2018, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Make that move and if the team loses in the first round pitchforks come out for Treliving quickly. If they lose in the first round while maintaining their assets it is a far less likely scenario.

The only trade that Treliving made when he went for it was the Hamonic deal and at least there we got him for 3 years on a sweetheart deal

If the flames go into the playoffs with this roster and lose in the first round I would fire Tre.

This is the first time since 2006 this roster has actually been in the position to be in the mix for the cup, standing pat would be an abject failure IMO.

Vinny01 · 12-03-2018, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

In the 2016-2017 season they traded their 2017 first round draft for Eaves.* In 2016-2017 they also went to the conference finals.

They also had the cap space to keep Eaves around.

Flames will spend their money this summer to sign a goalie, Tkachuk, and Bennett. Likely they move someone on their roster to free up more cap this summer. Frolik, Stone, and Brodie are candidates.

Oling_Roachinen · 12-03-2018, 02:12 PM

So what you're saying Vinny01 is it's time to capitalize on the low cap-hits of Tkachuk and Bennet and go all-in? ;P

transplant99 · 12-03-2018, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the flames go into the playoffs with this roster and lose in the first round I would fire Tre.

This is the first time since 2006 this roster has actually been in the position to be in the mix for the cup, standing pat would be an abject failure IMO.

Even if it's Smith and/or Rittich in net?

Flash Walken · 12-03-2018, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Even if it's Smith and/or Rittich in net?

Yeah. Especially if it's smith or rittich in net.

We all agree it's hard or impossible to address goaltending during the season, but we also agree goaltending is a problem.

So what's the solution?

Give the goalie more run support.

Phagoof · 12-03-2018, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Make that move and if the team loses in the first round pitchforks come out for Treliving quickly. If they lose in the first round while maintaining their assets it is a far less likely scenario.

The only trade that Treliving made when he went for it was the Hamonic deal and at least there we got him for 3 years on a sweetheart deal

1 I wouldn't be and I don't think most fans would either. If the Flames lost in the first round after adding Panarin that wouldn't be on the GM but the team.

2. Hamonic and Panarin are not even close comparison wise. Hamonic is a top 4 D, Panarin is arguably a franchise winger. As a rental, he would significantly boost the Flames chances at a cup. Saying Tre "went for it" with the Hamonic add is a huge overstatement.

Edit-

On the goalie situation... If Rittich doesn't get started in net in Cbus I'll be pissed.

transplant99 · 12-03-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah. Especially if it's smith or rittich in net.

We all agree it's hard or impossible to address goaltending during the season, but we also agree goaltending is a problem.

So what's the solution?

Give the goalie more run support.

Address the need in the off season and go for it again next year?

Flash Walken · 12-03-2018, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Address the need in the off season and go for it again next year?

Why would you waste this season when the team finds itself 1st in the division?

Doesn't make any sense. Is a 2019 first round pick going to help you get a goalie on July 1st 2019?

Vinny01 · 12-03-2018, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So what you're saying Vinny01 is it's time to capitalize on the low cap-hits of Tkachuk and Bennet and go all-in? ;P

If we could keep the rental player or sported a top 10 prospect pool I would be all for it but we don’t have much of a prospect pool and no cap space so we are just slamming the window closed sooner by giving up assets for a player that walks in the summer.

If we trade picks for a longer term move I am for it I am very much against rentals. With the cap structure getting a long term piece seems unlikely.

Vinny01 · 12-03-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why would you waste this season when the team finds itself 1st in the division?

Doesn't make any sense. Is a 2019 first round pick going to help you get a goalie on July 1st 2019?

What if the Flames are even better next year? 2 years straight without a first or second round pick means there are no real prospects coming to help this team and they will be forced to stuff PTO washouts in their bottom 6 and pairing soon enough. You talk like this is our only shot

Also laughable that we waste this season if we don’t go trade picks for a short term fix

transplant99 · 12-03-2018, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why would you waste this season when the team finds itself 1st in the division?

Doesn't make any sense. Is a 2019 first round pick going to help you get a goalie on July 1st 2019?

You aren't "wasting" this season.

As mentioned, you dont really expect a defense with 3 rookies and another 21 YO with NO playoff experience to win the Stanley Cup do you? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle and one of the G's gets on a hot streak that allows for this result, but to plan on it happening because you add another forward is just a fools errand.

It's a stepping stone season, especially for the youngsters, and a huge learning opportunity in regards to how much the game changes both later in the season and then again come mid April. Take advantage of that.

Again, they can address the G situation this summer with very minimal damage to both the defense and the F group AND keep their picks that they have lacked the last 3 drafts.

Also, its much more likely a decent G comes available in a trade at the draft than it will be at the deadline...and if that's the road BT wants to travel vs signing a pure UFA, then you need some chattel to bargain with...namely draft picks.

Vinny01 · 12-03-2018, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagoof

1 I wouldn't be and I don't think most fans would either. If the Flames lost in the first round after adding Panarin that wouldn't be on the GM but the team.

2. Hamonic and Panarin are not even close comparison wise. Hamonic is a top 4 D, Panarin is arguably a franchise winger. As a rental, he would significantly boost the Flames chances at a cup. Saying Tre "went for it" with the Hamonic add is a huge overstatement.

Edit-

On the goalie situation... If Rittich doesn't get started in net in Cbus I'll be pissed.

Disagree. Panarin first and foremost is a pure rental. 0% chance Calgary could retain him short of blowing their team up. Flames lose in the first it is not pong before everyone bitches about not having a first or second round pick for 2 drafts in a row. Make the playoffs and win a round before you blow your future up. We close our window before it opens fully.

If you do t think trading an unprotected 1st and 2 2nds for a 27 year old is not going for it I don’t know what to tell you. The Hamonic move in addition to the Smith trade were the moves that was supposed to take the Flames from a wildcard team to a contender.

Oling_Roachinen · 12-03-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

You aren't "wasting" this season.

Of course you are if you don't make a splash. Tkachuk is making 800K in his final ELC year. Not capitalizing on it is a waste, nearly as much as we laugh at Edmonton for wasting McDavid's years. It's just a question of whether wasting this year is better than not hurting the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

As mentioned, you dont really expect a defense with 3 rookies and another 21 YO with NO playoff experience to win the Stanley Cup do you?

So, you're suggesting grabbing a veteran defenseman as well?

Quote:

Again, they can address the G situation this summer with very minimal damage to both the defense and the F group AND keep their picks that they have lacked the last 3 drafts.

Except those picks will make a difference 3 or 4 years from now. Giordano will be done. Gaudreau could be gone. The team's window could be thoroughly close.

There needs to be a point where a team is willing to try to win with the core they have when the situation is calculated as best. That could be this season, it could be next if they do address goaltending. But if you don't think the core has the ability to win the Cup if you bolster the supporting cast, it's time to blow up the core cause Giordano's 35, he's not getting better