Russian Navy fires on and captures Ukrainian Warships

[CaptainCrunch]

Strategically I wouldn't want to fight the Russian's in what is basically their back yard. The short supply lines and troop numbers would make it nasty and give the Russians a huge advantage in troops, planes, bombers, artillary, tanks etc.


Unless the greater European powers and American's are willing to put a massive amount of assets in the field and come up with a protected logistics line they'll probably lose.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Amigos, there isn't much to see here, other than Poroshenko desperately clinging to power.

A few days earlier, terrorists launched a chemical attack against west Aleppo. Now, the cynic in me suggests the following: The West's little gas monkeys got off their leash in Syria and did something stupid and embarrassing, so a diversion was required to avoid all those uncomfortable questions at the UN. Luckily, the embarrassingly half-witted, submissive Ukrainian leadership is only too happy to help out the West and sacrifice its sailors and national interests. The alphabet agencies must ROFL at the clowns in Kyiv. The Ukrainian population? Not so much.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Strategically I wouldn't want to fight the Russian's in what is basically their back yard. The short supply lines and troop numbers would make it nasty and give the Russians a huge advantage in troops, planes, bombers, artillary, tanks etc.


Unless the greater European powers and American's are willing to put a massive amount of assets in the field and come up with a protected logistics line they'll probably lose.

Plus Europe relies on a lot of resources and energy from Russia. The reliance on Russian trade was purposely set up to make going to war with each other difficult, especially between Germany and Russia. Russia relies on their money, and Europe relies on their resources. It has neutered Europe's ability to respond, but also ensures that war almost always has to be avoided.

[Snuffleupagus]

Russia could invade Canada and Trump wouldn't respond, I might be a big minority but I think Trump is more Russian now than American, he's all about money and when the American banks gave him the finger after Atlantic City he sold his soul.

#fireworkssoon

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

he's all about money and when the American banks gave him the finger after Atlantic City he sold his sole.

Make seafood great again?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by DownhillGoat

Make seafood great again?

Oops!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The thing is, who is going to try and stop them?

This is the crux of the matter.

The answer: Nobody.

Why? Two major reasons:

1. Ukraine just isnt important enough. Nobody is sticking their necks out, least of all the US against Donald's good buddy Vlad, for Ukraine. There just isnt enough value in it to make it worth anyone's effort.

2. Ukraine depends heavily on one nation: Russia. So they really dont have anyone else to turn to.

[Flash Walken]

I think the appropriate lens through which to view international events and Russia these days is in relation to how stable they believe Trump is as president.

To me, this feels like they are grabbing what they can before the cops show up.

[Bagor]

Intentional that the boat that did the ramming was called "Don"?

Trawl job by the Russians?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Strategically I wouldn't want to fight the Russian's in what is basically their back yard. The short supply lines and troop numbers would make it nasty and give the Russians a huge advantage in troops, planes, bombers, artillary, tanks etc.


Unless the greater European powers and American's are willing to put a massive amount of assets in the field and come up with a protected logistics line they'll probably lose.

The only way to fight Russia is via sanctions. It's pretty difficult to make those effective when you have several NATO members gobbling up Russian oil:

[SebC]

You can't effectively sanction someone if you're not buying anything from them in the first place. But you also need to be able to stop buying from them. If only there were some other place from which Europe could get its oil.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

2. If Russia invaded and occupied Ukraine? War. Simple.

Who is going to fight in that war?

It is pretty easy to shout for war.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SebC

You can't effectively sanction someone if you're not buying anything from them in the first place. But you also need to be able to stop buying from them. If only there were some other place from which Europe could get its oil.

IMO this just means the nuclearization of Germany.

Nukes for protection, reactors for the power that keeps them in line with their climate goals.

It is really quite unfortunate for Albertans, but the 'energy economy' such as it existed in the 20th century is quickly fading. The externalities of the cost of securing energy sources are now starting to be accounted for. For a province like Alberta, there's no meaningful steps to be taken to counteract the global trend. Lots of teeth gnashing about pipelines and LNG, but those dyes were cast 15 years ago, there's nothing to be done now.

You'd better believe the price of conventional energy is going to take a dive once the US gets responsible leadership again. Probably a short term bump due to uncertainty, but the long term geopolitical moves are to cut the price of energy significantly to hurt Russia, eurasia and the middle east power centres.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

Amigos, there isn't much to see here, other than Poroshenko desperately clinging to power.

A few days earlier, terrorists launched a chemical attack against west Aleppo. Now, the cynic in me suggests the following: The West's little gas monkeys got off their leash in Syria and did something stupid and embarrassing, so a diversion was required to avoid all those uncomfortable questions at the UN. Luckily, the embarrassingly half-witted, submissive Ukrainian leadership is only too happy to help out the West and sacrifice its sailors and national interests. The alphabet agencies must ROFL at the clowns in Kyiv. The Ukrainian population? Not so much.

Are there any good sources that go along with this? This kind of sounds like the typical Russian line on this issue. Or am I missing a parody?

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Are there any good sources that go along with this?

Sources for what? That Poroshenko is a dunce?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

Sources for what? That Poroshenko is a dunce?

I'd like to welcome Russia Today to the forum.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

Sources for what? That Poroshenko is a dunce?

So that’s a no then.

[Flamenspiel]

nm

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Plus Europe relies on a lot of resources and energy from Russia. The reliance on Russian trade was purposely set up to make going to war with each other difficult, especially between Germany and Russia. Russia relies on their money, and Europe relies on their resources. It has neutered Europe's ability to respond, but also ensures that war almost always has to be avoided.

This was the argument prior to WWI, that a major war between great powers was inconceivable because their economies were so intertwined and interconnected. Turned out it didn't matter, they just bit the economic bullet and went to war anyway.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

This was the argument prior to WWI, that a major war between great powers was inconceivable because their economies were so intertwined and interconnected. Turned out it didn't matter, they just bit the economic bullet and went to war anyway.

I think that its hard to make the connection between pre-WW1 and the current situation mainly because the modern world intertwinning is so different, plus a large part f the major war between the great powers was based around the whole secret alliances, plus familiar connections.



I don't believe that anyone in the modern war has lost the belief that nation state wars cold happen, it just faded into the background in the dawn of the war on terror.