2026 Olympics- Calgary votes no- 56%

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Yes but it is a question of scope.
With a modest arena and a needed multi-sport complex the current bid only has something like 20% of new builds, in line with Agenda 2020 requirements.

Guidelines, not requirements. And they're only guidelines in an attempt to get more bids. If Calgary wants to build a ton of new stuff, and no one else bids, the IOC isn't cancelling the Olympics.

[JBR]

I've heard a number of comments in discussions with people who are leaning 'no' and am surprised to hear over and over:

"I hate Nenshi and don't trust him so I'm voting no"
"Notley has to go, so I'm voting no"
"Trudeau sucks and I hate his father, so I'm voting no"
"The IOC is corrupt so I'm voting no"

Don't vote no for the wrong reasons. Calgary 2026 is not about them. Do you think Calgary 88 is Ross Alger, Ralph Klein or Peter Lougheed's legacy? I don't think so.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by JBR

I've heard a number of comments in discussions with people who are leaning 'no' and am surprised to hear over and over:

"I hate Nenshi and don't trust him so I'm voting no"
"Notley has to go, so I'm voting no"
"Trudeau sucks and I hate his father, so I'm voting no"
"The IOC is corrupt so I'm voting no"

Don't vote no for the wrong reasons. Calgary 2026 is not about them. Do you think Calgary 88 is Ross Alger, Ralph Klein or Peter Lougheed's legacy? I don't think so.

You missed my favourite....

The pipeline should be the top priority right now and not the Olympics.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by JBR

I've heard a number of comments in discussions with people who are leaning 'no' and am surprised to hear over and over:

"I hate Nenshi and don't trust him so I'm voting no"
"Notley has to go, so I'm voting no"
"Trudeau sucks and I hate his father, so I'm voting no"
"The IOC is corrupt so I'm voting no"

Don't vote no for the wrong reasons. Calgary 2026 is not about them. Do you think Calgary 88 is Ross Alger, Ralph Klein or Peter Lougheed's legacy? I don't think so.

The trust issue is a legit concern to have, the rest are what you expect in politics in 2018. Politics now is about controlling the noise.

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

You missed my favourite....

The pipeline should be the top priority right now and not the Olympics.

Well I surely hope everyone thinks pipelines are more important to Calgary than the Olympics. Typically the complaint about this is "They can find money for the Olympics, but can't build a pipeline?"

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

They're throwing #### at the wall and seeing what sticks. Whatever it takes at this point to get it over the finish line.

Kind of like what you’ve been doing here too.

[TopChed]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the City has already committed to building a fieldhouse. If we are rolling that cost into the Olympic bid to have that matched, that seems like a win. Same with the "5000 seat arena" which I am assuming is funding earmarked for a Saddledome replacement. In that sense, the City is spending ~$400 million that they would have anyways, but by including it in the Olympic bid, we are getting additional funding from the provincial and federal governments.

If we assume that the games can be done close to the budget they've proposed, is that not a big win for Calgarians?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Kind of like what you’ve been doing here too.

I'm certainly glad a multi billion dollar Olympic bid is being held to the standard of a message board.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The trust issue is a legit concern to have, the rest are what you expect in politics in 2018. Politics now is about controlling the noise.

Well I surely hope everyone thinks pipelines are more important to Calgary than the Olympics. Typically the complaint about this is "They can find money for the Olympics, but can't build a pipeline?"

Agreed that politics is about controlling the noise, but I'll take bets that each of them (except the IOC of course) will be long forgotten by 2026.

Is the pipeline essential, absolutely 100% without question. Can the Federal Government help build one with some of the $1.5B they've committed to the Games? Logic says yes, but reality says no.

Without Calgary 2026, that cash will be spent elsewhere in Canada on a different multi-sport event. There's no preventing it. Let's 'cash the cheque' here.

Will some of that cheque be cashed by an RMCP Officer from Winnipeg getting overtime (for example)... I don't have an issue with that. Good for him, and thanks for coming to our city to help and contribute to our economy while you're here. Maybe you'll love it so much that you will come back with family and/or friends in the future.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by JBR

Agreed that politics is about controlling the noise, but I'll take bets that each of them (except the IOC of course) will be long forgotten by 2026.

Is the pipeline essential, absolutely 100% without question. Can the Federal Government help build one with some of the $1.5B they've committed to the Games? Logic says yes, but reality says no.

Without Calgary 2026, that cash will be spent elsewhere in Canada on a different multi-sport event. There's no preventing it. Let's 'cash the cheque' here.

Will some of that cheque be cashed by an RMCP Officer from Winnipeg getting overtime (for example)... I don't have an issue with that. Good for him, and thanks for coming to our city to help and contribute to our economy while you're here. Maybe you'll love it so much that you will come back with family and/or friends in the future.

Right but we're talking about voters who inherently hate Nenshi, Notley, Trudeau, or some combination of the above. Their arguments are going to be driven by their disdain for them, and if you try to bring a more rational argument into it, you only harden their stance against this. You can even say "Well, look, hate Nenshi all you want, but it's free money from Quebec!", but you know their response is "I don't trust him, he'll waste it on a blue circle to encompass the whole city". We live in the emotional politics world, like it or not.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by JBR

Agreed that politics is about controlling the noise, but I'll take bets that each of them (except the IOC of course) will be long forgotten by 2026.

Is the pipeline essential, absolutely 100% without question. Can the Federal Government help build one with some of the $1.5B they've committed to the Games? Logic says yes, but reality says no.

Without Calgary 2026, that cash will be spent elsewhere in Canada on a different multi-sport event. There's no preventing it. Let's 'cash the cheque' here.

Will some of that cheque be cashed by an RMCP Officer from Winnipeg getting overtime (for example)... I don't have an issue with that. Good for him, and thanks for coming to our city to help and contribute to our economy while you're here. Maybe you'll love it so much that you will come back with family and/or friends in the future.

except with the slimmed down security costs, hasn't it been suggested by the bidco team that much of security can be done by volunteers and k-mart cops?
then you're not going to be seeing for example Winnipeg rcmp gal getting extra money to spend in calgary's economy and introducing more people to the city.

The Calgary Bid Exploration Committee stated in its report

Instead of spending hundreds of millions of dollars on security personnel — costs that would likely include transportation, accommodation and overtime for hundreds of police officers from across the country — the plan is to "reduce the risk to as low as reasonably practical," according to the committee report.
It suggests one of the ways to do that is to hire fewer security personnel and fewer police officers.
That would include more volunteers, private security guards and peace officers. It's unclear whether the RCMP fully endorses the ideas laid out in the committee report or the Calgary 2026 draft hosting plan.


So it will be the let's go cheap and hoping nothing bad happens Olympics.

amazing how bid committees intentionally lowball security in their bids because they don't have to worry about the actual cost.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The trust issue is a legit concern to have, the rest are what you expect in politics in 2018. Politics now is about controlling the noise.



Well I surely hope everyone thinks pipelines are more important to Calgary than the Olympics. Typically the complaint about this is "They can find money for the Olympics, but can't build a pipeline?"

I am going to check out of this thread for a while. You have been called out and proven wrong a number of times yet refuse to acknowledge it. Instead you throw some other wildcard into the mix. The yes and no side seem to have a very civil debate and then you come flying in with a bunch of inaccurate poll numbers, articles from over a month ago, comments about the level of promotion from the yes side means desperation, comments about the yes side being completely crushed right now.

To cap it off, if you believe the complaint you just typed of "They can find money for Olympics but cant build a pipeline" and believe the 2 have anything to do with each other then I throw my hands up.

Ill be back to post after results are announced and if the no side wins, I will hold no grudge and move on, happy that the majority spoke. If the yes side wins, I won't be reminding you how it would be impossible for you to have been any more wrong. I can only imagine your response.... yes wins and it was a scam, rigged, conspiracy, everyone is an idiot. No side wins and you will let everyone know that you knew it all along.

[Manhattanboy]

The vote should have been postponed three more weeks to give folks more time to review the recent information.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

I am going to check out of this thread for a while. You have been called out and proven wrong a number of times yet refuse to acknowledge it. Instead you throw some other wildcard into the mix. The yes and no side seem to have a very civil debate and then you come flying in with a bunch of inaccurate poll numbers, articles from over a month ago, comments about the level of promotion from the yes side means desperation, comments about the yes side being completely crushed right now.

To cap it off, if you believe the complaint you just typed of "They can find money for Olympics but cant build a pipeline" and believe the 2 have anything to do with each other then I throw my hands up.

Ill be back to post after results are announced and if the no side wins, I will hold no grudge and move on, happy that the majority spoke. If the yes side wins, I won't be reminding you how it would be impossible for you to have been any more wrong. I can only imagine your response.... yes wins and it was a scam, rigged, conspiracy, everyone is an idiot. No side wins and you will let everyone know that you knew it all along.

I've been enough of a dick here, if No wins I'll just say I'm happy with the result and move on. If Yes wins, I'll come and take my beating, since I imagine there's about a dozen posters who can't wait to give it to me.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

The vote should have been postponed three more weeks to give folks more time to review the recent information.

One of the most annoying things is the next four years of budgets comes out Nov 14. If people wonder why there's a trust gap with City Hall, this is part of the reasom why. Just a very poor look, should be out before we vote so we know what the next few years are actually going to look like.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TopChed

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the City has already committed to building a fieldhouse. If we are rolling that cost into the Olympic bid to have that matched, that seems like a win. Same with the "5000 seat arena" which I am assuming is funding earmarked for a Saddledome replacement. In that sense, the City is spending ~$400 million that they would have anyways, but by including it in the Olympic bid, we are getting additional funding from the provincial and federal governments.

If we assume that the games can be done close to the budget they've proposed, is that not a big win for Calgarians?

The Olympics have a net operating loss of about 1 to 1.5 billion depending on which set of numbers you look at. So effectively the entire federal portion of the costs is going to running the games. 0 matching funds are going to infrastructure.

This is what I see as the ultimate failure of the bid. It fails to leverage federal dollars to build infrastructure for Calgary. Instead the province and city are paying for all the infrastructure whether it is required or not.

The provincial money really depends on what you will think happens in the next 8 years. If every response to infrastructure requests are met with you chose to spend the money on the Olympics then it is not new money and not a benefit of the Olympics. If you believe tha Calgary will continue to get its share of additional Capital dollars than it is a benefit to Calgary.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by JBR

I've heard a number of comments in discussions with people who are leaning 'no' and am surprised to hear over and over:

"I hate Nenshi and don't trust him so I'm voting no"
"Notley has to go, so I'm voting no"
"Trudeau sucks and I hate his father, so I'm voting no"
"The IOC is corrupt so I'm voting no"

Don't vote no for the wrong reasons. Calgary 2026 is not about them. Do you think Calgary 88 is Ross Alger, Ralph Klein or Peter Lougheed's legacy? I don't think so.

My main reason for voting No is that I believe this will be a fiscal failure, with a lot of money spent for no useful infrastructure or development besides a Field House.

My secondary reason for voting No and what overrides my sentimentality to the Olympics is I have no interest in taking on additional tax burden as a City of Calgary property owner to host an Olympics for the rest of Canada given how maligned as a Province we are. The fact that BC is getting any benefit out of this without having to contribute funds is an absolute joke, especially given how destructive they've been, they can suck it. Canada is barely a country so why should we host for them.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I've been enough of a dick here, if No wins I'll just say I'm happy with the result and move on. If Yes wins, I'll come and take my beating, since I imagine there's about a dozen posters who can't wait to give it to me.

If yes wins this doesn’t mean a bid will occur. I believe there is one more vote with City hall to approve the bid. I think there are councillors who would vote against the Olympics if the deal is materially different than what is voted on today.

I don’t get why you would take a beating for the side you were backing losing. All of the concerns brought up are still valid. The fact that the populace favours a bad deal doesn’t change its a bad deal. The other thing is once Calgary is committed to the Olympics there is no point in opposing it anymore and you might as well get in on the awesomeness that is the Olympics.

This concept that your team wins and the losers should have some sort of consequence is ridiculous.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Olympics have a net operating loss of about 1 to 1.5 billion depending on which set of numbers you look at. So effectively the entire federal portion of the costs is going to running the games. 0 matching funds are going to infrastructure.

This is what I see as the ultimate failure of the bid. It fails to leverage federal dollars to build infrastructure for Calgary. Instead the province and city are paying for all the infrastructure whether it is required or not.

The provincial money really depends on what you will think happens in the next 8 years. If every response to infrastructure requests are met with you chose to spend the money on the Olympics then it is not new money and not a benefit of the Olympics. If you believe tha Calgary will continue to get its share of additional Capital dollars than it is a benefit to Calgary.

This makes a lot of sense, and that is my concern as well regarding the provincial funding. It seems like the best case scenario then would be that we are breaking even and having a great party for a few weeks.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by GGG

If yes wins this doesn’t mean a bid will occur. I believe there is one more vote with City hall to approve the bid. I think there are councillors who would vote against the Olympics if the deal is materially different than what is voted on today.

I don’t get why you would take a beating for the side you were backing losing. All of the concerns brought up are still valid. The fact that the populace favours a bad deal doesn’t change its a bad deal. The other thing is once Calgary is committed to the Olympics there is no point in opposing it anymore and you might as well get in on the awesomeness that is the Olympics.

This concept that your team wins and the losers should have some sort of consequence is ridiculous.

It would be pretty bold to override the public vote, I just cannot see it. And I don't see how the bid can be materially different from here until the vote happens, once this is passed I can't imagine they change a thing. Obviously once the bid is approved all bets are off as to how things will change, but it's past the point of no return there.

I'll be taking a beating for being insufferable, which I certainly deserve. I won't take it personally either, we live in the spite politics world, I expect at least 50% of ballots for this will be cast in such a manner, one way or the other.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It would be pretty bold to override the public vote, I just cannot see it. And I don't see how the bid can be materially different from here until the vote happens, once this is passed I can't imagine they change a thing. Obviously once the bid is approved all bets are off as to how things will change, but it's past the point of no return there.

I'll be taking a beating for being insufferable, which I certainly deserve. I won't take it personally either, we live in the spite politics world, I expect at least 50% of ballots for this will be cast in such a manner, one way or the other.

Did you ever consider trying to not be insufferable?