Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I see one truly elite, top 10 defenceman (Giordano).
I see one former elite defenceman who lost his brain 3 years ago and is still looking for it (Brodie).
I see a raw 21-year old defenceman who has been completely sheltered in his first three seasons in this league (Hanifin).
I see a 3rd pairing defender who spends most of the time in his zone because he can't move the puck up the ice (Hamonic).
I see an immobile replacement level defender who makes more than $3 million for the next two years, who is somehow worse defensively than he is offensively (Stone).
And finally, I see two high potential rookies but ultimately are inexperienced and sheltered (Andersson and Valimaki).

The defence is not good.

This is why we need an experienced coach at the helm.

We have a young team offensively and defensively who need direction.

Outside of Smith, we also have young goalies in the back up roll. That is why Tre had to get a #1 goalie as well.

Such a young team won't get direction from a coach that has not proved a thing in the NHL. We don't need the blind leading the blind.

[zamler]

May sound obvious but to win a Cup you need 3 things, a superstar center, a Vezina quality goaltender and a Norris level defenseman. Another way to look at it is consider the last 10 Cup winners and compare those teams to the current Flames and the team in the last 10 years. How close was and is this team to that level?

[dino7c]

a week ago we were pretty happy for the most part...I'm willing to give it another few games

[Macindoc]

The decision to keep Sigalet as goaltending coach is inexplicable. Every goalie he has coached has become subjectivity and objectively worse under his guidance. All of our goalies go down into the butterfly early and make themselves vulnerable to dekes, cross-ice passes and shots over the shoulder. Opposing teams have identified this, and the Penguins and Habs took great advantage of this tendency in the past two games. Even our highly touted goalie prospects seem to be taking steps backwards every year. Unless there is a franchise-wide purge of our goaltender coaches, the Flames are doomed to continue to have among the worst save percentages in the league.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The decision to keep Sigalet as goaltending coach is inexplicable. Every goalie he has coached has become subjectivity and objectively worse under his guidance. All of our goalies go down into the butterfly early and make themselves vulnerable to dekes, cross-ice passes and shots over the shoulder. Opposing teams have identified this, and the Penguins and Habs took great advantage of this tendency in the past two games. Even our highly touted goalie prospects seem to be taking steps backwards every year. Unless there is a franchise-wide purge of our goaltender coaches, the Flames are doomed to continue to have among the worst save percentages in the league.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the quality of team playing in front of the goalies? Blaming a goaltending coach for the team's woes amounts to scolding a baby for not using manners at the table. Treliving hasn't given this team one elite level goalie to work with during his entire tenure. You get what you give and we've been given aging fodder and second rate talent since day one.

[Badgers Nose]

I think another team gets the BT payoff when he applies all the tough lessons learned here, at a new team in a year or two.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The decision to keep Sigalet as goaltending coach is inexplicable. Every goalie he has coached has become subjectivity and objectively worse under his guidance. All of our goalies go down into the butterfly early and make themselves vulnerable to dekes, cross-ice passes and shots over the shoulder. Opposing teams have identified this, and the Penguins and Habs took great advantage of this tendency in the past two games. Even our highly touted goalie prospects seem to be taking steps backwards every year. Unless there is a franchise-wide purge of our goaltender coaches, the Flames are doomed to continue to have among the worst save percentages in the league.

How does Sigaley connect to the performance of Gillies and Parsons?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Yes, I agree. It's not at the point that I want him gone either but it was incredibly stupid of Treliving to hire him right away without seeing who else was out there.

Even with the job I was just hired for I was told that as soon as they saw my resume they knew I was the guy they wanted but it took them over a month to finally hire me because they wanted to see who else was interested and if they were a better fit.

I don't agree that it was "incredibly stupid" unless Peters actually proves to have been a terrible choice as a coach. We are a very long way from that yet, and despite an awful few games here there has actually been a lot to like with Peters.

And let's be honest, here: the call-list of NHL coaches for every possible job opening is incredibly small. Treliving knew exactly who was available, or even potentially would be available before he hired Peters. He had conducted quite an extensive coaching search just two years prior, and I think it is likely that he also knew everything he needed to about every coach that might be considered for the job. This is nothing like hiring a new officer or executive for a company which is one of hundreds in an industry that employs tens-of-thousands if not millions. It is just NOT the same at all.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't agree that it was "incredibly stupid" unless Peters actually proves to have been a terrible choice as a coach. We are a very long way from that yet, and despite an awful few games here there has actually been a lot to like with Peters.

And let's be honest, here: the call-list of NHL coaches for every possible job opening is incredibly small. Treliving knew exactly who was available, or even potentially would be available before he hired Peters. He had conducted quite an extensive coaching search just two years prior, and I think it is likely that he also knew everything he needed to about every coach that might be considered for the job. This is nothing like hiring a new officer or executive for a company which is one of hundreds in an industry that employs tens-of-thousands if not millions. It is just NOT the same at all.

That might be the case but within that two year time frame, coaches became available that were coaching elsewhere when he hired GG.

I think it is incredibly short sighted to say, my decision was made two years ago, this is my man, not interviewing anyone else.

I do think Peters is better than GG as he seems to have a better pulse on the team and handles his bench better. But is he better than Sutter or Vigneault, I don't think so.

[Macho0978]

Flames are 5 and 5 with a minus 3 goal differential coming off a 9 to 1 loss. They have also played teams that are combined 41-24-12. It’s hard not to over react after 3 weak games in a row but this team has a lot of new players and a new coach and has got horrible goaltending from smith. Let’s give it another month

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by redforever

That might be the case but within that two year time frame, coaches became available that were coaching elsewhere when he hired GG.

I think it is incredibly short sighted to say, my decision was made two years ago, this is my man, not interviewing anyone else.

I don't think that is what happened at all—this is a massive oversimplification of how I expect the decision was made. My point really was this: Treliving and staff had all the information they felt they needed heading into the decision to hire Bill Peters. I think SOME of this came out of the earlier coaching search, but certainly not all of it. All I am getting at is that complaining about the fact Treliving did not conduct interviews before hiring Peters is pretty vacuous. Again, hiring a NHL coach is not like hiring for the vast majority of other jobs or positions.

I do think Peters is better than GG as he seems to have a better pulse on the team and handles his bench better. But is he better than Sutter or Vigneault, I don't think so.

And I don't think we really know the answer to this question yet.

[The Boy Wonder]

The flames are fine...

We all knew there would have to be some growing pains with New coach, new system, 3 super young Dmen.

Some people were optimistic that Smith would be able to weather that storm over teh first month or so of the season. It turns out he can't, but we are still at 5-5 and haven't totally ruined our chances of playoffs yet.

The next three games will really set the tone as we are playing two very good teams and one that is looking like a really good team.

If the flames can get through october and first week of november without being below .500 and start playing as a complete team then I think they can turn it around.

But goaltending needs to improve, smith was 100% at fault for 5/6 goals and more importantly hasn't given the team a big save when it's been needed this year.

[Spinach]

2012-13: Start the teardown late in the season, drafted Monahan + busts
2013-14: Year 1 of the rebuild, drafted a disappointing Bennett and... nothing else.
2014-2015: Year 2 of the rebuild, miraculously made round 2. Traded for Dougie, drafted useful parts
2015-16: A poor season in Year 3 of the rebuild. Drafted Tkachuk & other potentials.
2016-17: Lost in round 1 in Year 4 of the rebuild. Drafted Valimaki.
2017-2018: A poor season in Year 5. No high draft picks.
2018-19: Not a great start...


The last five years show that the Flames' rebuild isn't linear, nor has it gone perfectly in terms of drafting. The '14 draft, getting only one player in the '13, and sitting out the first two rounds of the '18 draft could especially hold this franchise back. Disregarding the clown show in Shelbyville, I wonder how the Flames compare to other teams that started rebuilding around the same time.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

The flames are fine... .

They are not fine.

Defense is not fine.
Goaltending is not fine.

One can argue that we have decent young forwards. But they are just that - decent. We all saw yesterday what a truly fine forward group looks like.

People keep repeating religiously about the team being “just fine” and it is an utter nonsense. As if pointing to problems makes you less of a fan. We have had no bona fide good goaltender since Kiprusoff. Treliving had two REAL opportunities to acquire Fleury snd Bishop; and he passed on both, settling on high-risk second rate goalies instead. He could have acquired Kane for a bag of pucks - he passed. He could have acquired Raanta - he passed. I don’t blame Treliving for signing Brouwer - we needed a big right-winger, he signed one. It’s not Tre’s fault Brouwer that Brouwer stopped playing. But I do blame Treliving for not signing Fleury or Bishop, when he had a chance.

I slso blame him for taking a huge chance on a mediocre coach with no track record and not talking to Darryl, even after Darryl said he’d like to come back.

This team is anyhing but fine at the moment. And Treliving has a big part in it too.

[troutman]

Fine is not enough.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The only thing worse than losing 9-1 are the comments after losing 9-1...

Well said man (slow clap).

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

They are not fine.

Defense is not fine.
Goaltending is not fine.

One can argue that we have decent young forwards. But they are just that - decent. We all saw yesterday what a truly fine forward group looks like.

People keep repeating religiously about the team being “just fine” and it is an utter nonsense. As if pointing to problems makes you less of a fan. We have had no bona fide good goaltender since Kiprusoff. Treliving had two REAL opportunities to acquire Fleury snd Bishop; and he passed on both, settling on high-risk second rate goalies instead. He could have acquired Kane for a bag of pucks - he passed. He could have acquired Raanta - he passed. I don’t blame Treliving for signing Brouwer - we needed a big right-winger, he signed one. It’s not Tre’s fault Brouwer that Brouwer stopped playing. But I do blame Treliving for not signing Fleury or Bishop, when he had a chance.

I slso blame him for taking a huge chance on a mediocre coach with no track record and not talking to Darryl, even after Darryl said he’d like to come back.

This team is anyhing but fine at the moment. And Treliving has a big part in it too.

We have been over it multiple times that the cost for Fleury was the pick that was used to get Tkachuk. Are you really saying you would rather have Fleury than Tkachuk?

[CaptainYooh]

These are rabbit holes. Of course, I wouldn’t wanna give away Tkachuck, but you didn’t know it at the time. Plus, Fleury could have been had much earlier, as soon as Murray took over. I would have been fine with giving up the pick we used on Bennett. Wouldn’t you?

[David Struch]

In retrospect, sure, right here & now, most would rather have Marc-André Fleury than Sam. But, Bennett was supposed to be a #1 Centre at the time too.

[Toonage]

Don't think the Pens were shopping MAF in 2014?

Also the pick that would have been given to Vegas would have been the 2017 1st. Valimaki.

The 2016 1st (Tkachuk) was being talked about when looking at Bishop wasn't it?