Ferland had an incredible 1st half of the season last year. He was on a 30 goal/60 point pace. Then the team started to implode, and he disappeared the last half. I love the guy, but wouldn't read too much into this hot streak. He's always been like this (as are most middle 6 wingers in the league).
Lindholm just seems to have a much bigger toolbox. Speed, skill, grittiness. Ferland has those attributes too. But Lindholm has a much higher hockey IQ, defensive game, PK abilities.
They are both good players and have different skillsets. But IMO Lindholm's talents are what's needed in the Flames' top 6 more so then what Ferland brought to the table.
Lindholm was streaky last year too. I think he scored like 4 goals in the last 50 games of the season or something crazy.
I think your 40ish point guys are always going to be streaky.
The first point of contact is to the head. But it's to a player in the midst of a 360 spin. McAvoy keeps his arm down and skates through his man. It's interference, and it's not a Rule 48 violation.
Regardless of whether or not Johnny has the puck, it's within less than a stick length of McAvoy. Which means it's in a high danger area if you're a Bruins D. Which means you have to hit Gaudreau there.
Irrelevant. Player making the hit is responsible for being in control while making the hit. Gaudreau was rotating but not moving unexpectedly downward immediately prior to the hit. No different from the hit on Petterson or a stick infraction. The initial head contact was avoidable by adjusting the point of contact, and the hit wasn’t necessary to separate Gaudreau from the puck (and you can’t hit a player to prevent them from getting to the puck when they don’t have possession) and was completely avoidable . He wasn’t even the first Bruin on the scene after Gaudreau drove to the net.
People are continually talking about the hit, but not enough about the reaction! McAvoy bulldozes our star player and all he gets from the Flames players is some lousy words. I wish there was a mini brawl to show the rest of the league that the Flames will not accept Gadreau being thrown around. We should not be pushovers who lack toughness.
I wish Brad Marchand was on the Flames. He would not take that nonsense like he did not take that nonsense from Lars Eller.
(BTW, I do believe the hit was not dirty and does not deserve a suspension.)
Irrelevant. Player making the hit is responsible for being in control while making the hit. Gaudreau was rotating but not moving unexpectedly downward immediately prior to the hit. No different from the hit on Petterson or a stick infraction. The initial head contact was avoidable by adjusting the point of contact, and the hit wasn’t necessary to separate Gaudreau from the puck (and you can’t hit a player to prevent them from getting to the puck when they don’t have possession) and was completely avoidable . He wasn’t even the first Bruin on the scene after Gaudreau drove to the net.
It's interference. It was called interference. Nobody died. It was a bang bang play and our guy got lit up. Sucks for him. Learn from it. It's the NHL - everyone gets tagged eventually.
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People are continually talking about the hit, but not enough about the reaction! McAvoy bulldozes our star player and all he gets from the Flames players is some lousy words. I wish there was a mini brawl to show the rest of the league that the Flames will not accept Gadreau being thrown around. We should not be pushovers who lack toughness.
I wish Brad Marchand was on the Flames. He would not take that nonsense like he did not take that nonsense from Lars Eller.
(BTW, I do believe the hit was not dirty and does not deserve a suspension.)
Weren't the Flames in the midst of a full scale line change during this time? I thought by the time the players got there, the linesman had McAvoy and was escorting him to the box. Its hard to cause brawl when the officials are in the way.
The Flames did react quickly when Johnny was kneed earlier in the game. I just don't see how they could do much in this instance.
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People are continually talking about the hit, but not enough about the reaction! McAvoy bulldozes our star player and all he gets from the Flames players is some lousy words. I wish there was a mini brawl to show the rest of the league that the Flames will not accept Gadreau being thrown around. We should not be pushovers who lack toughness.
I wish Brad Marchand was on the Flames. He would not take that nonsense like he did not take that nonsense from Lars Eller.
(BTW, I do believe the hit was not dirty and does not deserve a suspension.)
There was a big reaction earlier when Donato tripped Gaudreau.
There wasn't a reaction here because everyone involved in the game knew that what happened to Gaudreau would've happened to every single one of them. And had they been McAvoy, they all would've done it.
Plus they were going on the powerplay. Plus <10 to go. Lots of reasons to not throw a fit.
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Irrelevant. Player making the hit is responsible for being in control while making the hit. Gaudreau was rotating but not moving unexpectedly downward immediately prior to the hit. No different from the hit on Petterson or a stick infraction. The initial head contact was avoidable by adjusting the point of contact, and the hit wasn’t necessary to separate Gaudreau from the puck (and you can’t hit a player to prevent them from getting to the puck when they don’t have possession) and was completely avoidable . He wasn’t even the first Bruin on the scene after Gaudreau drove to the net.
In what way are you suggesting he'd have done this in a fraction of a second? I've heard this a couple times, and watching the hit I can't see how that's a reasonable criticism. Is this the kind of hit you're suggesting?
Now we're hitting johnny in the head with a shoulder pad, and it's a suspension. I also don't know that McAvoy gets so low so quickly to do as you're suggesting. And from looking at it, I'm pretty glad he didn't.
I also think the 'hit' was very necessary. If Johnny scores there, McAvoy looks like a boob for letting Johnny be Johnny on the post. Johnny comes in on a break with McAvoy trailing. Rask makes a great save, Johnny is still on the puck. When McAvoy goes in for the hit, Johnny was still managing the puck on Rask's pad and it pops out:
We may not love the result, but it's definitely a play I'll be pretty disappointed to see come out of the game. There was just a scoring chance, Rask is down, and it's Johnny. I've watched this a bunch of times, and I just can't get onboard with being upset about it, as it's exactly the kind of player respect that I think keeps this game physical (even if it's coming from McAvoy).
He could have run through Johnny after the breakaway, but he didn't. We see that all the time, and McAvoy could have been looking for retribution after being beat just like we saw with Pettersson. But he didn't, and he reacted to the play and played physical against our top-scorer. He didn't leave his feet, elbow him in the head, or charge through him. He hit him out of a very dangerous situation, and hopefully the physical game hasn't impacted Johnny.
I'm one of the first to cry for punishment when carelessness or disregard leads to injury, but this isn't one of them IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macindoc
[...] He wasn’t even the first Bruin on the scene after Gaudreau drove to the net.
I mean, that part is obviously misleading right?
Last edited by Split98; 10-18-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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He could have run through Johnny after the breakaway, but he didn't. We see that all the time, and McAvoy could have been looking for retribution after being beat just like we saw with Pettersson. But he didn't, and he reacted to the play and played physical against our top-scorer. He didn't leave his feet, elbow him in the head, or charge through him. He hit him out of a very dangerous situation, and hopefully the physical game hasn't impacted Johnny.
I think he did elbow him in the head. To me it's also pretty apparent he knew the puck puck wasn't close to Johnny. They are both in his line of sight, and he wasn't interested in where the puck was going.
He didn't leave his feet because he didn't have to jump up into Gaudreau. But he did actually have one foot kicked out by then end because of his thrust through the hit.
I think he had time to remove Gaudreau from the area without hitting him high. It's done all the time.
I think he did elbow him in the head. To me it's also pretty apparent he knew the puck puck wasn't close to Johnny. They are both in his line of sight, and he wasn't interested in where the puck was going.
He didn't leave his feet because he didn't have to jump up into Gaudreau. But he did actually have one foot kicked out by then end because of his thrust through the hit.
I think he had time to remove Gaudreau from the area without hitting him high. It's done all the time.
Lol, I think I'm beginning to understand even more now how difficult it will be to get these right. As two incredibly smart and good-looking individuals, we see entirely the opposite play.
When I'm watching it, I don't see the elbow. It's certainly close to his face, but that's more Johhny than McAvoy. What I personally don't see is an intent to hit with the elbow, as he had his arm pulled in as he should.
As far as the puck goes, every time I watch the play and reverse the jerseys in my head I'm still thinking the defenceman should be playing the body here.
Lol, I think I'm beginning to understand even more now how difficult it will be to get these right.
When I'm watching it, I don't see the elbow. It's certainly close to his face, but that's more Johhny than McAvoy. What I personally don't see is an intent to hit with the elbow, as he had his arm pulled in as he should.
As far as the puck goes, every time I watch the play and reverse the jerseys in my head I'm still thinking the defenceman should be playing the body here.
You don't need an intent to hit with the elbow, you just need to do it. And while he starts with his arm tucked in he extends his forearm/elbow (and the NHL has always called hits with a forearm elbowing). Extending to follow through or as the initial part of the hit doesn't really matter. His forearm/elbow his Johnny in the face. Plus it's been deemed late already, so that part of the play isn't really in dispute.
I don't think McAvoy is dirty (though he was suspended for head hits in NCAA). I think he was overexuberant and reckless. Would a Flame do it? Maybe Gio, but he plays with an edge.
I agree its borderline. I just disagree which side of the border it's on.
You don't need an intent to hit with the elbow, you just need to do it. And while he starts with his arm tucked in he extends his forearm/elbow (and the NHL has always called hits with a forearm elbowing). Extending to follow through or as the initial part of the hit doesn't really matter. His forearm/elbow his Johnny in the face. Plus it's been deemed late already, so that part of the play isn't really in dispute.
I don't think McAvoy is dirty (though he was suspended for head hits in NCAA). I think he was overexuberant and reckless. Would a Flame do it? Maybe Gio, but he plays with an edge.
I agree its borderline. I just disagree which side of the border it's on.
I can see that, as the league hasn't been consistent. IMO, 'elbowing' should really only be called if the elbow was used to hit. Normally it's hitting with the elbow extended, or swinging with the elbow as your primary contact. In this case, I don't think either happened.
As Scroopy pointed out in the other thread, McAvoy has to shove here, as there's no momentum in his hit. The alternative is a hug, which I'd hope Giordano doesn't resort to in that situation.
It usually never helps to compare one play to another, as context is everything here - but I think we see plays like this all the time. A player comes in for a scoring chance, stops up at the goalie for a follow up and the defenceman need to clear the net. Without an injury (and if it's not Johnny) I think McAvoy get a tap for a smart recovery there. I definitely know that if that's Pastrnak after a Smith stop, I'd be pretty critical of the defenceman that let him flip it over the pads. TBH, it takes a weird hop off Rasks pad before McAvoy hits Johnny. Without that hop, there's a chance that Johnny was converting there.
I bring up that NFL example as if this is the kind of hit that's out of the game, it's likely a frustrating goal when a defenceman is watching Johnny there
I can see that, as the league hasn't been consistent. IMO, 'elbowing' should really only be called if the elbow was used to hit. Normally it's hitting with the elbow extended, or swinging with the elbow as your primary contact. In this case, I don't think either happened.
As Scroopy pointed out in the other thread, McAvoy has to shove here, as there's no momentum in his hit. The alternative is a hug, which I'd hope Giordano doesn't resort to in that situation.
It usually never helps to compare one play to another, as context is everything here - but I think we see plays like this all the time. A player comes in for a scoring chance, stops up at the goalie for a follow up and the defenceman need to clear the net. Without an injury (and if it's not Johnny) I think McAvoy get a tap for a smart recovery there.
I think there was plenty of momentum, plus he didn't shove - he hit. McAvoy may have been gliding but it was from a ways out - he took a couple hard strides to start. He had a fair bit of speed. You don't get a concussion from being pushed in the head - you get it from being hit (and Johnny's head didn't impact the ice).
Johnny wasn't stopping for a followup either. He was trying to regain balance he lost with his jam against the pad. The typical "vulnerable position".
In any event, the league isn't doing anything, Johnny reportedly is OK, so that's that.
I think there was plenty of momentum, plus he didn't shove - he hit. McAvoy may have been gliding but it was from a ways out - he took a couple hard strides to start. He had a fair bit of speed. You don't get a concussion from being pushed in the head - you get it from being hit (and Johnny's head didn't impact the ice).
Johnny wasn't stopping for a followup either. He was trying to regain balance he lost with his jam against the pad. The typical "vulnerable position".
In any event, the league isn't doing anything, Johnny reportedly is OK, so that's that.
Honestly, I can't disagree with how you've interpreting any that. I 100% see it the other way, but you're interpretation is also 100% reasonable.
I'm actually really enjoying watching my entire 'reviewing the plays will help officiating' mindset demonstrate it's difficulties. Clearly, if they came back with a call one of us will disagree with how they came to that conclusion.
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No offence to the other great winning image posts through the years to decorate the PGTs but this one will reign supreme as one of my favourites unlikely to be unseated EVA! Kudos for making that and for Rittich for inspiring it! Awesome sauce, I’m looking forward to seeing it in a ton of PGT this year.
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Lindholm was streaky last year too. I think he scored like 4 goals in the last 50 games of the season or something crazy.
I think your 40ish point guys are always going to be streaky.
Lindholm is younger then Ferland, he was still growing as a player. From what I've seen so far this season, Lindholm is way more talented and is 3 years younger the Ferland.
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