Hamonic out week to week with Facial Fracture - update - practicing with the team

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Gubranson has averaged 2 fights a year for the last 6 years.

If he's a threat they'd better dress Prout every night.

I get the flames didn't dress someone for the first game. I can see the merit behind that, as Gudbranson isn't a fighter or enforcer. However from this point moving forward they should be dressing someone of similar ilk when playing the Canucks.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Bingo

it was a poorly timed hit followed by an apology ... does their really need to be retribution? Dube is fine.

Did Gudbranson actually apologize? Must've missed that somewhere...props to him if he did.

[CaptainCrunch]

time to go out on Saturday and hack the bone . . . hack the bone!

[Bingo]

OK ...

I just don't get it. If Dube takes that pass and he's not early it's a big open ice hit that used to be applauded in hockey. (Gauthier, Phaneuf, Sarich on Marleau)

He missed. Dube got stunned. He apologized. Hamonoic stood up.

Move on.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by 868904

Peters should have had Prout in for one of Stone or Valimaki. He should have recognized that the Canucks had someone on their team like Gudbranson and been prepared.

Peters has to submit his lineup first IIRC, so couldn't have "known" anything about who Vancouver was going to ice.

That thinking is how that line brawl started (well, allegedly) with Hartley and Torts.

But the Flames no longer have tough guys like that to ice, so what's Peters to do, really? He still has to put out a team he thinks can win.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

I get the flames didn't dress someone for the first game. I can see the merit behind that, as Gudbranson isn't a fighter or enforcer. However from this point moving forward they should be dressing someone of similar ilk when playing the Canucks.

No. They win the game tomorrow night and no one will remember what they did or did not do in Game #1. I believe the Flames's best opportunity to win is with Andersson and Stone in the lineup, and not Dalton Prout.

[soulchoice]

Yes move on, no need for retribution on Saturday. However I can guarantee Grubranson will not change his style of play and will be looking to be aggressive and hit to hurt still. As he should be, wouldn't expect anything less. Hits aren't just about separating the player from the puck. That's an absurd way to look at hockey. There will be hits both clean and dirty. This won't be the last time a player steps up in defence of a team mate.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Yes move on, no need for retribution on Saturday. However I can guarantee Grubranson will not change his style of play and will be looking to be aggressive and hit to hurt still. As he should be, wouldn't expect anything less. Hits aren't just about separating the player from the puck. That's an absurd way to look at hockey. There will be hits both clean and dirty. This won't be the last time a player steps up in defence of a team mate.

Calgary fans used to practically draw up T-shirts saying "Tunnel of Death" but now we need a AHL defenseman dressed to protect sheep from a physical but clean defenseman?

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by 868904

Peters should have had Prout in for one of Stone or Valimaki. He should have recognized that the Canucks had someone on their team like Gudbranson and been prepared. I'm not saying he should have dressed Prout and told him to fight Gudbranson off the opening faceoff, but Prout should have been in the line up in case a situation like the Dube hit occured.

I'm not even that upset with the hit. It's a hockey play. The problem is the culture, Hamonic had no choice but to fight Gudbranson. The Flames had no choice. If the hit was on Tkachuk, it doesn't warrant a response. The hit was on a 20 year old rookie in his first game, first shift. The Flames had to respond. If fighting was out of the game, fine, no fight response is needed, but when fighting is in the game and that happens, the players, the leadership know, that something had to be done.

LIke I said, even if the Flames scored on the powerplay, I guarantee you Hamonic still goes after Gudbranson, because that is the culture.

I'm not arguing whether fighting should be gone or not, all i'm saying is Peters put Hamonic in that position, by not dressing a player capable of handling that situation. The Flames were going to respond with a fight regardless of what happened on the powerplay. I suppose we should be happy that it was Hamonic and not Giordano or Tkachuck.

I don't think the Flames would have suffered by downgrading slightly from Stone or Valimaki to Prout. It is a 6th defencemen spot, Prout would have only played 10 minutes, and you would have had the opportunity to get more minutes for Brodie and Hamonic. The downgrade on the 6th defensemen for two games would have been offset by the rest of the players feeling a greater sense of security and comfort knowing that they had someone like Prout backing them up.

I don't want to see Prout in every game either, but you have to adjust to your opponent, and i'm not talking about changing your whole system to suit an opponent, it's just a minor roster move to make sure that your players are protected. There are only a handful of teams that still carry a threat that requires a Prout in the lineup, it was dumb to not have Prout in there against Vancouver. What's the point of having him on the roster, if you won't use him when he's needed?

lol dude, every team has a big defenseman like Gudbranson. You want Prout in every game?

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Peters has to submit his lineup first IIRC, so couldn't have "known" anything about who Vancouver was going to ice.

That thinking is how that line brawl started (well, allegedly) with Hartley and Torts.

But the Flames no longer have tough guys like that to ice, so what's Peters to do, really? He still has to put out a team he thinks can win.

Toughness and having the security is still part of the game and helps in wins. It's just ensuring you have someone that can still take a shift and is tough. Doesn't have to be a one dimensional enforcer.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Did Gudbranson actually apologize? Must've missed that somewhere...props to him if he did.

I remember Dube saying during his intermission interview on Wednesday that he asked him if he was ok after he came back from the dressing room and that it was all good between them.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Calgary fans used to practically draw up T-shirts saying "Tunnel of Death" but now we need a AHL defenseman dressed to protect sheep from a physical but clean defenseman?

Because of what happened the first game absolutely yes. Being this game is only days after. In limited normal third pairing mins and playing a defensive game Prout will be fine.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

OK ...

I just don't get it. If Dube takes that pass and he's not early it's a big open ice hit that used to be applauded in hockey. (Gauthier, Phaneuf, Sarich on Marleau)

He missed. Dube got stunned. He apologized. Hamonoic stood up.

Move on.

Just sucks to lose your #3 guy at the beginning of the season for at least a few weeks when the team is trying to get off to a good start under new coaches and players. It's a big win for the Canucks and Gubranson to have one of the Flames better defenders offer up his face to be punched in and placed on the IR. On the bright side Andersson will get an opportunity to impress.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Did Gudbranson actually apologize? Must've missed that somewhere...props to him if he did.

We get tied up in the Us vs. Them in sports (as we should), but you have to remember these are all just people. I doubt very much that he was hoping to send a rookie to concussion protocol and break a fellow young defenseman’s face in the first game of the season.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Calgary fans used to practically draw up T-shirts saying "Tunnel of Death" but now we need a AHL defenseman dressed to protect sheep from a physical but clean defenseman?

I feel in this case, it's to send a message that the team will stand up for itself, and will not tolerate being pushed around. Even if the hit wasn't intentionally malicious, it hurt the player, and resulted in another player being injured. Meanwhile for the Canucks it shifted the momentum in their favour, which carried out throughout the entire game.

Flames have been a team that's been soft as ice cream for the past few seasons, and you could say it's been a factor in their lackluster results. In game 2 of the season, immediately after this happened, I feel it's worth it to have push back physically, and stand up for themselves and build some fire in the team that is desperately needed. When a team plays physical and with umph, I feel the team plays better. It's like when Ferland made Bieksa his bitch back in the '15 playoffs. The Flames were fueled from that energy. Since then, there hasn't been a player that really been that spark, and the team has flatlined since that series.

Prout doesn't have to dress tomorrow night, but overall I would like the team to be more physical, and try to impose their will on the Canucks both by body, speed, and skill. Really take what happened on Wednesday personally, and make up for it tomorrow. If this team is actually gonna be different from previous seasons, that would be nice to see.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I feel in this case, it's to send a message that the team will stand up for itself, and will not tolerate being pushed around. Even if the hit wasn't intentionally malicious, it hurt the player, and resulted in another player being injured. Meanwhile for the Canucks it shifted the momentum in their favour, which carried out throughout the entire game.

Flames have been a team that's been soft as ice cream for the past few seasons, and you could say it's been a factor in their lackluster results. In game 2 of the season, immediately after this happened, I feel it's worth it to have push back physically, and stand up for themselves and build some fire in the team that is desperately needed. When a team plays physical and with umph, I feel the team plays better. It's like when Ferland made Bieksa his bitch back in the '15 playoffs. The Flames were fueled from that energy. Since then, there hasn't been a player that really been that spark, and the team has flatlined since that series.

The Flames were second in fighting majors last year.

Where the Flames expose themselves is that their PP sucks. Teams with crappy powerplays don't have the modern deterrent which is kicking the other team's ass when they cross the line by making them pay for it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Yes move on, no need for retribution on Saturday. However I can guarantee Grubranson will not change his style of play and will be looking to be aggressive and hit to hurt still. As he should be, wouldn't expect anything less. Hits aren't just about separating the player from the puck. That's an absurd way to look at hockey. There will be hits both clean and dirty. This won't be the last time a player steps up in defence of a team mate.

Which is dumb. The only thing distinguishing Gudbranson's hit as "dirty" was the fact that it was a split-second late. Hits like that can happen in every single game, and every single player is at risk of being on the receiving end. What are you proposing here? Do the Flames need to dress Prout in every game just in case they do?

Prout's presence would NOT prevent hits like Gudbranson's. The game is too fast for even the best players in the world to process all of it that quickly. Like I said earlier (or in another thread) the only reason to dress Prout is for retribution, not deterrence. The likely result will be seeing the Flames playing big chunks of the game on Saturday shorthanded.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I feel in this case, it's to send a message that the team will stand up for itself, and will not tolerate being pushed around. Even if the hit wasn't intentionally malicious, it hurt the player, and resulted in another player being injured. Meanwhile for the Canucks it shifted the momentum in their favour, which carried out throughout the entire game.

Flames have been a team that's been soft as ice cream for the past few seasons, and you could say it's been a factor in their lackluster results. In game 2 of the season, immediately after this happened, I feel it's worth it to have push back physically, and stand up for themselves and build some fire in the team that is desperately needed. When a team plays physical and with umph, I feel the team plays better. It's like when Ferland made Bieksa his bitch back in the '15 playoffs. The Flames were fueled from that energy. Since then, there hasn't been a player that really been that spark, and the team has flatlined since that series.

And if Gudbrandsen handles Prout easily, or even just acquits himself well against a supposed tough guy then what? It's pretty doubtful that any fight would result in a big moral victory - most are just hugfests, especially where you have guys who have fought and can defend.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames were second in fighting majors last year.

Where the Flames expose themselves is that their PP sucks. Teams with crappy powerplays don't have the modern deterrent which is kicking the other team's ass when they cross the line by making them pay for it.

Really? That's surprising to know, since I feel even with that amount of fights, the team still appeared soft. (Lack of response when their goalie is getting harassed notably is what I remember)

Either way, you're right that since the PP was no threat, there's no deterrent in opposing teams playing over the edge since they feel the risk is low.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

lol dude, every team has a big defenseman like Gudbranson. You want Prout in every game?

So, who is the Flames big defenseman like Gudbranson?