[News] Updated cost for Calgary to host the 2026 Olympic to be $5.23 billion.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

...With this bid, Calgary will again set a new standard for an Olympic bid, just for different reasons...

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Vancouver did have a plebiscite, and it passed with something like 65%. But 2003 is ages ago and the general public view of the IOC is far more negative now after multiple scandals and the public having a better grasp of just how corrupt they are as an organization. Every recent plebiscite that potential host cities have had, from the US to Europe, has failed. So Calgary would be bucking the trend if they approved.

The reasons these plebiscites continue to fail is because the model is broken, and the ONLY way an Olympic Games can be successful in Calgary is under a new model. I think the proposal from the city is just that—an attempt to trigger a market correction that the Olympic movement so desperately needs to move it away from corruption and familiarity with despots and dictators.

I recognize that this is not the spirit of New Era's quoted response, but I think he is totally correct about this: Calgary would be setting a new standard, and one that is becoming all-the-more pertinent. I, for one, enthusiastically embrace this approach and anticipate a necessary correction to the idiocy of the current Olympic economic model.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I am a big NO at this point. I just don't see the benefit the City gets out of this bid.

On the positive side, I like the new Field House, the city desperately needs one. But everything else seems like lipstick on a pig (reno for McMahon Stadium, Saddledome), not really necessary (upgrades to Olympic Oval, Canmore Nordic Centre, Nakiska Ski Resort, and WinSport), or just plain stupid (6,000 seat hockey arena up by the University)? What is the use of that going to be after the Olympics, Hitman/Roughneck games? Who would pay for the upkeep of that building when it is empty 90% of the time?

There is also some talk of holding events like Curling in Edmonton and Ski Jumping in Whistler, are these cities chipping in on the cost? How would security cost be lower than Vancouver it you hosting events all over Western Canada?

The whole bid just seems half-assed to me.

To be fair: these are the most necessary unless you are tired of our athletes doing well at international competitions.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The reasons these plebiscites continue to fail is because the model is broken, and the ONLY way an Olympic Games can be successful in Calgary is under a new model. I think the proposal from the city is just that—an attempt to trigger a market correction that the Olympic movement so desperately needs to move it away from corruption and familiarity with despots and dictators.

I recognize that this is not the spirit of New Era's quoted response, but I think he is totally correct about this: Calgary would be setting a new standard, and one that is becoming all-the-more pertinent. I, for one, enthusiastically embrace this approach and anticipate a necessary correction to the idiocy of the current Olympic economic model.

The plebiscites that failed though weren't on extravagant, over the top bids. Boston, for instance, didn't even get to it's plebiscite, but it's bid was heavily reliant on existing and temporary facilities. And the bid was pulled because the plebiscite was going to fail so the USOC abandoned the Boston bid to focus on LA 2028. I think it's more that people know they'd rather deal with the mafia than the IOC because at least the mafia isn't pretending. I think even most Olympic supporters would acknowledge the IOC is extremely corrupt (yet still support the Olympics, for whatever reason).

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Vancouver did have a plebiscite, and it passed with something like 65%. But 2003 is ages ago and the general public view of the IOC is far more negative now after multiple scandals and the public having a better grasp of just how corrupt they are as an organization. Every recent plebiscite that potential host cities have had, from the US to Europe, has failed. So Calgary would be bucking the trend if they approved.

Every Olympic plebiscite ever held in Canada has passed, so we'd also be bucking the trend if not approved.


2003 was directly after the scandal-filled 2002 Games bid process where the IOC's corruption was at its absolute worst and on full display. In the run-up to 2002, there was serious talk about taking the Games away from Salt Lake because the bribery and corruption of their bid was so bad. I don't know if you can say that the public perception of the IOC is worse now than it was then.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by craigwd

To be fair: these are the most necessary unless you are tired of our athletes doing well at international competitions.

I would disagree that this is true. The maintenance required to maintain these facilities to be sufficient for high level training is significantly different than upgrading facilities for an Olympics. This concept that "ALL" of the capital refurbishment is money that is needed anyway is blatantly false.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by craigwd

To be fair: these are the most necessary unless you are tired of our athletes doing well at international competitions.

'Not necessary' in the sense that they are not falling apart and only need upgrades to bring them up to Olympic standard. Our Olympic athletes can train at the newer oval and bobsled/luge tracks in Vancouver if the Calgary ones aren't up to standard. There are no Olympic skiers training at Nakiska, the FIS club based on that hill barely trains there. Winsport seems like a decent facility to me, not sure what else needs to be done there. And if Canmore needs a upgrade to the Nordic Centre, let the people of Canmore pay for it.

and lets be honest, our athletes doing well at international competitions should be a financial responsibility of our Federal Government and not the taxpayers of Calgary.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by getbak

Every Olympic plebiscite ever held in Canada has passed, so we'd also be bucking the trend if not approved.


2003 was directly after the scandal-filled 2002 Games bid process where the IOC's corruption was at its absolute worst and on full display. In the run-up to 2002, there was serious talk about taking the Games away from Salt Lake because the bribery and corruption of their bid was so bad. I don't know if you can say that the public perception of the IOC is worse now than it was then.

IOC corruption certainly didn't get better from that point, especially not with a run of dictatorship Olympics. I'm guessing the general public is still more trusting of gas station sushi than it is the IOC.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

IOC corruption certainly didn't get better from that point, especially not with a run of dictatorship Olympics. I'm guessing the general public is still more trusting of gas station sushi than it is the IOC.

I bet you it passes with at least 2/3rd majority.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

'Not necessary' in the sense that they are not falling apart and only need upgrades to bring them up to Olympic standard. Our Olympic athletes can train at the newer oval and bobsled/luge tracks in Vancouver if the Calgary ones aren't up to standard. There are no Olympic skiers training at Nakiska, the FIS club based on that hill barely trains there. Winsport seems like a decent facility to me, not sure what else needs to be done there. And if Canmore needs a upgrade to the Nordic Centre, let the people of Canmore pay for it.

and lets be honest, our athletes doing well at international competitions should be a financial responsibility of our Federal Government and not the taxpayers of Calgary.

Bingo. In fact to take it a step further I don't see why our beleaguered city and province should shoulder any cost to host a party and build future training sites for a Country that largely resents us.

[CSharp]

I'm totally against going further and I think the plebiscite is a waste of everyone's time and money. Our federal government just shelled out $4.5B of taxpayers money to make sure the Trans Mountain pipeline is built. It'll likely be recovered if and when that pipeline gets built. Then, we're ALL (everyone in Canada, not just Calgary, Edmonton, Canmore, and Vancouver) gonna be chipping in to pay for the Olympics and it's all coming to us via some sort of tax. With this $5B bill that all of us will be paying, I don't see a whole lot of infrastructure that's coming into the city like we did back in 1988. So, before anyone vote FOR this Olympic bid, please think long and hard about where this money goes and how the heck the money is going to be recovered. Don't think stupid short-term "What the heck, let's have a party and who cares how it's gonna be paid off in the future attitude". Both the federal Liberal and provincial NDP won't be around come next year.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I bet you it passes with at least 2/3rd majority.

Doubt it, I suspect it's tight either way. Better question is if the plebiscite fails with something like 52-48, will Nenshi go Doug Ford and override it?

[trew]

Some random thoughts:

- The Saddledome has a size and a seating configuration that will be better for the olympics compared to what the Flames would ideally want in their own arena. There's not a lot of sunk costs on the proposed Olympic plans for the Dome. They are more-or-less budgeting to take over the major capital maintenance items for the arena, and have some minor things to change to meet IOC requirements and the para-olympics.

- I see the McMahon reno as all-out gift to CSEC. If you wrote a long list of things that the building needs right now to properly do it's job but is not feasible for the team to fund, well it's pretty much on the Olympic proposal. Now... whether this is a smart capital investment compared to a new building, I'm not so sure.. but I think there's a strategic reason for proposing a renovation instead of a new facility.

- There's a lot of press coming from the IOC about the "New Norm" approach and the need to have "sustainable" olympics that re-uses venues, and is not a generational financial burden with wasted construction spending. Along with the IOC's public encouragement for Calgary to stay in the bidding process I think came guidance that they want to see a proposal with as much re-use as possible. For better or worse, I think pigs with frosted lips are en-vogue for the IOC right now.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Doubt it, I suspect it's tight either way. Better question is if the plebiscite fails with something like 52-48, will Nenshi go Doug Ford and override it?

This is important. Do we need a certain threshold or is it 50% + 1.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Doubt it, I suspect it's tight either way. Better question is if the plebiscite fails with something like 52-48, will Nenshi go Doug Ford and override it?

Vancouver got around that by making their plebiscite non-binding.

The inevitability of the Olympics softened the no vote.

[JBR]

For those waiting for an arena to be included... and away we go. That didn't take long. I would bet that it will be part of the deal by the time plebiscite day arrives.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...emains-unclear

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

'Not necessary' in the sense that they are not falling apart and only need upgrades to bring them up to Olympic standard. Our Olympic athletes can train at the newer oval and bobsled/luge tracks in Vancouver if the Calgary ones aren't up to standard. There are no Olympic skiers training at Nakiska, the FIS club based on that hill barely trains there. Winsport seems like a decent facility to me, not sure what else needs to be done there. And if Canmore needs a upgrade to the Nordic Centre, let the people of Canmore pay for it.

and lets be honest, our athletes doing well at international competitions should be a financial responsibility of our Federal Government and not the taxpayers of Calgary.

Vancouver doesn't have a speed skating oval to train at. The ice at Richmond was temporary.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by JBR

For those waiting for an arena to be included... and away we go. That didn't take long. I would bet that it will be part of the deal by the time plebiscite day arrives.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...emains-unclear

This part is such a scam you almost think that an agreement in principle has already been reached. You build the outrage around the no campaign around the fact that it doesn’t even include an arena. Then, two weeks out, you announce the arena deal contingent on the Olympics. This creates euphoria and pushed the referendum and arena over the top.

[browna]

Why not throw some other civic hot button or general interest questions on there, since we're out at the polls anyway, especially as they are non binding.

Fluoride
30km per hour limit
Preferred 2019 Stanley Cup parade route
Etc.

Seems like a waste to go through all the administrative and logistics of a plebiscite, for a single issue, when you can get direct citizen opinions on multiple issues in one shot.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by browna

Seems like a waste to go through all the administrative and logistics of a plebiscite, for a single issue, when you can get direct citizen opinions on multiple issues in one shot.

Why even bother having Councillors then? I don't want to be bothered with this stuff, that's why we elect City officials. This goes down a dangerous road.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why even bother having Councillors then? I don't want to be bothered with this stuff, that's why we elect City officials. This goes down a dangerous road.

As I said, I'm suggesting this because we're already out checking a box on one question already, may as well take another 30 seconds for 4 more questions. If there was no plebiscite for the the Olympics, then sure, we don't need a specific plebiscite for every issue, but, again, we're out already.

And its all non binding, and I'm sure the councillors and Mayor would love to have that actual hard data of the people they are supposed to be representing. Hardly a hardship for me provide my opinion by filling in a couple more dots.