DSG is jerkier than a manual starting from a stop, and kind of annoying when trying to reverse up a hill to parallel park and it slips on you. At least I can still cling to one downfall to justify my irrational love of manuals.
Ugh, screw DSG. There are enough cars with that crap, leave at least a few fun cars with a stick.
I would have agreed with you until a couple years ago. Manual sucks now, it's inferior in every regard, worse performance, poorer gas mileage, money shifts, and terrible at holding higher horsepower. Sure you can buy a performance clutch, but I've had one that made my left leg shake in stop and go traffic. There's a reason companies like Ferrari have basically abandoned the manual, it's a relic and isn't competitive anymore.
I would have agreed with you until a couple years ago. Manual sucks now, it's inferior in every regard, worse performance, poorer gas mileage, money shifts, and terrible at holding higher horsepower. Sure you can buy a performance clutch, but I've had one that made my left leg shake in stop and go traffic. There's a reason companies like Ferrari have basically abandoned the manual, it's a relic and isn't competitive anymore.
I'm heading this way as well, but for different reasons. I think it's because I'm getting older and the traffic is getting worse in the city. For me a manual is less about fuel economy, performance, etc.; it's about being more a party to the driving experience versus just being a passenger with a steering wheel (an exaggeration). If there was no traffic anywhere I'd take a manual every time, regardless of performance. Now, most of my driving is in traffic and I'm sick of manuals except for those rare times when traffic is light. I know I'd never buy another manual as a daily driver. As a second car I still would for now, but even those days are probably numbered.
Okay, last week I took a wicked little car on a test drive. I've always preferred pure horsepower over handling (it can be very expensive if you want both). For example, my daily driver is an AWD 340 HP 300C and my fun car is a Mustang GT. Neither one of those cars is known for being very nimble, but they can accelerate like mad.
Anyway, I test drove a Fiat 500 Abarth. The base Fiat 500 has 100 horsepower or something, there is a Turbo with 130 horsepower, then there is the Abarth with 160 horsepower. 0-60 is nothing to write home about at 6.7 seconds, but peppy for sure. I think this is one of those cars that the 0-60 doesn't do it justice, though.
It's a blast to drive this thing. Corners are fun, the sound is cool (the exhaust snaps, crackles and occasionally backfires), the interior is fun and roomy enough for a 6'3" dude like me. It's only available in stick, which is awesome. I think you can get into one for less than $30K, although I'd only buy one used in a few years for ~$10K.
Pic:
Spoiler!
Exhaust clip (I promise this doesn't come close to doing it justice):
In a way, I think it'd be more fun driving this around town in a relatively legal fashion versus driving a super car around town using only about 15% of its potential. What do you guys think of this thing? Any other fun little cars like this that you'd probably get more out of than something that is technically better on paper?
Well, it has been a few years and sure is shat a used Fiat Abarth is now about $10k. I'm Mustangless and thinking about another fun car to own. This one I want to teach my daughter to drive stick with when she's 14 in a year. The thought of a fun car she would enjoy without enough power to wrap it around a lamp pole is very appealing, as is something that I would enjoy to drive, too. FWD is important on this one as it may become hers when she's 16.
Cars I'm considering:
Fiat Abarth Cabrio
Mini Cooper S (possibly convertible)
VW GTI
The GTI would be my first choice if this was going to be my only car; however, I already have a German car that sort of scratches that itch and there's no point in having two similar cars. I am leaning toward the Abarth. Any thoughts? Other cars I should throw on the list for me/her?
I would have agreed with you until a couple years ago. Manual sucks now, it's inferior in every regard, worse performance, poorer gas mileage, money shifts, and terrible at holding higher horsepower. Sure you can buy a performance clutch, but I've had one that made my left leg shake in stop and go traffic. There's a reason companies like Ferrari have basically abandoned the manual, it's a relic and isn't competitive anymore.
You are dead to me
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Well, it has been a few years and sure is shat a used Fiat Abarth is now about $10k. I'm Mustangless and thinking about another fun car to own. This one I want to teach my daughter to drive stick with when she's 14 in a year. The thought of a fun car she would enjoy without enough power to wrap it around a lamp pole is very appealing, as is something that I would enjoy to drive, too. FWD is important on this one as it may become hers when she's 16.
Cars I'm considering:
Fiat Abarth Cabrio
Mini Cooper S (possibly convertible)
VW GTI
The GTI would be my first choice if this was going to be my only car; however, I already have a German car that sort of scratches that itch and there's no point in having two similar cars. I am leaning toward the Abarth. Any thoughts? Other cars I should throw on the list for me/her?
This is pretty much why I bought a Cayman over other options in the same range. You don't spend the whole time driving it on road while thinking "this car clearly wants to go much much faster than this".
Anyway, why is FWD important? Also, how much practicality do you really need?
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
This is pretty much why I bought a Cayman over other options in the same range. You don't spend the whole time driving it on road while thinking "this car clearly wants to go much much faster than this".
Anyway, why is FWD important? Also, how much practicality do you really need?
FWD is important so it can be a good winter car for a new driver. I mean that as FWD vs RWD. AWD would be great, but not for the price range/style of car I'm thinking.
I honestly don't think the FWD / RWD thing makes all that much difference on snow if you have appropriate tires. I was going to say just get an MX5. But if you're really stuck on the FWD you could get a Civic R... provided that you never actually, you know, look at it from the outside. Or a Veloster, maybe? Veloster N?
On the AWD front you could probably do a pre-2014 WRX STI hatch. Or even just a normal WRX.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Haha, I was just laughing at my younger self. I daily a manual M235i and definitely prefer it over the DSG in my wife's old GTI. The facts of my statement are true, but I don't regret driving the inferior version.
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Yeah, this summer I crashed my Datsun, sold my automatic 370z and my RX350 and replaced them all with manual transmission cars. The 370z's auto was actually pretty good and way, way faster than a stick shift (especially driven by me), but it's just nowhere near as much fun.
All manual all day.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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You're much better off with a high powered subaru, Mini, VW, or even Ford Focus ST if you want some fun city driving. Those cars will also allow you to go onto a major road/highway without fearing for your life.
I drive Smart Cars with Car2Go...yes it's occasionally fun to drive what is essentially a Go-Kart with a more protective bodykit. However, as a regular or daily driver it'd be a nightmare, and I'd never drive a sizeable distance in one.
OP, I think you're issue may be that your 2 vehicles are both American muscle type cars and kind of boats. Those are great if you want to drive on a straight highway fast. For making frequent turns, get a more rally orientated vehicle.
And no...the Mini and Smart Cars are nothing alike. A supercharged Mini is a lot of fun to drive.
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FWD is important so it can be a good winter car for a new driver. I mean that as FWD vs RWD. AWD would be great, but not for the price range/style of car I'm thinking.
I dunno if RWD is a huge issue. I learned on a RWD as a teen (with likely too much power). With good winters I wouldn't say it's worse in winter. I would say it has different characteristics than an FWD, but if that's all she knows (mostly) it shouldn't be a huge issue IMO.
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Never driven an Abarth but I love my GTI for whipping around the city when I'm not in the mood to drive my truck. I'd also look hard at a Focus RS or ST.
Once you get into the Focus RS price range, you have a lot of other (imo better) alternatives. Focus ST, though, I've heard, is great bang for the buck.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Well, it has been a few years and sure is shat a used Fiat Abarth is now about $10k. I'm Mustangless and thinking about another fun car to own. This one I want to teach my daughter to drive stick with when she's 14 in a year. The thought of a fun car she would enjoy without enough power to wrap it around a lamp pole is very appealing, as is something that I would enjoy to drive, too. FWD is important on this one as it may become hers when she's 16.
Cars I'm considering:
Fiat Abarth Cabrio
Mini Cooper S (possibly convertible)
VW GTI
The GTI would be my first choice if this was going to be my only car; however, I already have a German car that sort of scratches that itch and there's no point in having two similar cars. I am leaning toward the Abarth. Any thoughts? Other cars I should throw on the list for me/her?
Is reliability important to you? Both the Fiat and Mini are amongst the worst choices from a reliability perspective. A Focus/Fiesta ST would be better, and more practical choices comparatively (bot are a lot of fun too).
Last edited by FLAME ENVY; 09-07-2018 at 06:38 PM.
