As part of the question about trip cost (and overall building the thing) one should ask - WHO is this primarily for?
In TO they though the airport rail link would be primarily for business travelers/tourists and priced based on similar lines - London / Rome/ Paris - at $25 a ride (IIRC) - which was about $10 less than a cab ride. Next to no one used it. They added 2 stops, lowered the price to $13 and now have reasonable (but still low) local ridership. (Now, TO also has a "downtown" airport which means that the majority of business travelers from MTL, OTT, & NYC (the bulk of the business travel group) have no need to use the airport link.)
If the line is just between downtown and YYC and mainly for the business traveler, it won't matter how much a ticket is, it will be money down the drain.
If the Banff -> downtown line is mainly for residents, then it can't go much higher than $40 return, and it will still be money down the drain. Most residents, knowing what a pain Banff transit is, and haveing the opportunity to buy a season's pass to the park, will simply drive.
I think the full line - YYC - Downtown - Banff - has to be tourist / convention goer centric. Right now it costs the tourist about $500 to get from YYC to Banff and back - car rental, park permit, gas, parking - not to mention the time it takes - 30 min to get the car and 2 hours to get to Banff (drivers unfamiliar with the area tend to take longer).
A rail line can cut that cost by a huge margin. I think many tourists will pay $100 return ($160 for a "first class" return) ticket. That's where the money will be. I agree that rail is how the rest of the world expects to travel once they reach a destination. Car rental is a very NA thing.
Want to increase ridership, fine, offer residents multi ride passes or season's passes at a reduced rate.
I think this shouldn't be about "will Calgarians take the $15 train for a ski day?" but "how can we get more tourist/convention dollars into the area?"
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If the train has stops in Cochrane a huge contingent would be commuting traffic back and forth during the week. Heck even add a small percentage for Canmore depending on how long the ride would be.
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If the train has stops in Cochrane a huge contingent would be commuting traffic back and forth during the week. Heck even add a small percentage for Canmore depending on how long the ride would be.
With stops at Cochrane, Canmore, and Banff, Downtown Calgary, and the airport, it would be foolish to think of the train as having only one single purpose. Multi-purpose would be the way to go. Commuter, Tourist, heck, even just an airport to downtown connection would add value beyond just getting tourists to Banff.
The real value of the train, though, is in the land surrounding it. Get a good spot downtown for a central station, and bam, that spot is a high value mall. People talk about the cost of the downtown station, as if it doesn't have incidental value itself. Do you really think that the station is only paid for by ticket sales for the train itself, and only that?? There would be no additional commerce there paying for the rent?? A station in Cochrane would increase the value of the land around Cochrane. If you built a station near open, undeveloped land, that land becomes incredibly valuable, that increase alone paying for a significant portion, if not most, of the line. Why do you think the guy who owns the Banff station wants to put this idea forward??? Cause that's where he will make the most money. This isn't a surprising thing - that's what the majority of the value of the Florida Panthers is. Real Estate. Same with Calgary Next. Heck, that's how the CP Rail line was first built, way way back.
Once a downtown station is built, well then, the Calgary-Edmonton bullet train makes a whole lot more financial sense - a major cost has been removed. So would a commuter train to Okotoks, or Strathmore, or Airdrie. The problem is, we are only valuing each of these items as single use, single purpose things. As if there is no other use other than getting tourists to Banff. Of course if you only consider that, it's a bit rocky in terms of financing and value.
I think the pricing needs to be set somewhere so that it encourages groups of 2 or less to take the train instead of driving there. That would hopefully promote carpooling and have a positive impact on the parking.
I think the pricing needs to be set somewhere so that it encourages groups of 2 or less to take the train instead of driving there. That would hopefully promote carpooling and have a positive impact on the parking.
I think you will have a hard time cracking the local market for weekend trips out to banff. It won't be convenient/cheap enough I would think.
Canmore is so busy on the weekends now you can barely drive anywhere in town. Would love to see how they add a train stop on Railway avenue to integrate into the town downtown pedestrian/free transit strategy.
A passenger railway has to be well connected to the various tourism boards, tourist attractions, ski shuttles, and hotel groups.
Also, I would consider commuting from Canmore to downtown Calgary using the train on a daily basis for work.
Since we're putting the wish lists together, can we electrify this thing too? Even though our electricity isn't really green in Alberta, it would be a nice way to be a little more environmentally conscious heading into the park, and a little less noisy. Might as well if we're starting from scratch with a dedicated line...and if we want real frequency here, let's go full double-track. Now we just need to find a maintenance and storage facility location.
I still have yet to see an argument on how something like this is actually going to work. You will grab probably 30-40% of tourists maybe but you are not getting the locals.
I still have yet to see an argument on how something like this is actually going to work. You will grab probably 30-40% of tourists maybe but you are not getting the locals.
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How does this effect a train line between Banff and Calgary?
Provides some context about argument that the train would be used by work commuters. Also, it give information about how Calgarians feel about taking about taking public transit. I have no argument to make, these threads are best when they are full of data, even if its relevance is slightly dubious.
Also, I would consider commuting from Canmore to downtown Calgary using the train on a daily basis for work.
You would likely have to stand in line. The strain on real estate in Canmore would be massive, and likely make it more difficult for locals to buy anything there.
The cost to build a station downtown would be huge. I wonder if somehow converting the old gulf Canada building might be the easiest, but it may not be possible.
Cp would likely want some big bucks to allow their track to be used in that area.
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The cost to build a station downtown would be huge. I wonder if somehow converting the old gulf Canada building might be the easiest, but it may not be possible.
Cp would likely want some big bucks to allow their track to be used in that area.
What’s wrong with the existing station? It could probably use some cosmetic upgrades, but it looks to be functional.
Being in Banff this Thursday and Friday I would have loved seeing more cars off the road. I would also love seeing downtown Banff being pedestrian only. I can't see how this train is profitable.
^ I always imagined I'd hate Whistler, but it's a far superior experience to Banff based on the lack of cars.
Driving TCH really sucks in the summer - especially on weekends. Not enough to justify the expense...but I found myself longing for a train during today's many bumper to bumper slow downs.
the way the Banff station owners want all three levels of government to pay the majority of the line, it seems they're timing this for the Olympic bid.
win for them as for little outlay of money, government pays for most of it & covers the losses, and they profit.
the way the Banff station owners want all three levels of government to pay the majority of the line, it seems they're timing this for the Olympic bid.
win for them as for little outlay of money, government pays for most of it & covers the losses, and they profit.
Plus I'm sure a fee to the government to allow for the use of their station/land.
What three levels are they talking about? Federal (Parks), Provincial... what's the third? Municipal (City of Calgary?)
