2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Oling_Roachinen]

The same way that the Flames would want to move Bennett + Brodie for Kessel, the Penguins would love to move Maatta + Sheary for Giordano, but I think this is a classic case of "you got to give to get." I understand why some would disagree, but I'm actually comfortable with Hamilton in a #1 role. Far more comfortable than I am with Ferland in a #1 role.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

The same way that the Flames would want to move Bennett + Brodie for Kessel, the Penguins would love to move Maatta + Sheary for Giordano, but I think this is a classic case of "you got to give to get." I understand why some would disagree, but I'm actually comfortable with Hamilton in a #1 role. Far more comfortable than I am with Ferland in a #1 role.

Brodie - Hamilton as top pairing?

Hope we don’t move our 2019 1st round pick, we’re back out of the playoffs without Gio. Why would we move our most consistent defender who is the backbone of this team?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yes, because trades and UFA signings only happen in NHL 18 and not in the real NHL.

0.01% that we get both.

Where are we getting all of the cap space for this? We still have Smith and Brouwer on the books, and Tkachuk needs to be re-signed.

Tkachuk is our priority in a year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

0.01% that we get both.

Where are we getting all of the cap space for this? We still have Smith and Brouwer on the books, and Tkachuk needs to be re-signed.

Tkachuk is our priority in a year.

Haha, I know the chances of that happening are between slim and none. I will be shocked if we are able to land one elite forward this off season, never mind two of them.

However, if Treliving were able to acquire those two players, cap space issues would not stop him IMO.

In this case it would be as easy as dealing Stone for a couple of picks and buying out Brouwer.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Iginla is still a free agent

Oh God, not this again...

[Nelson]

I think the Flames are going to sign Derek Ryan. Elliotte Friedman mentioned it this morning. He just said

“one of the guys I think Calgary could potentially be looking at is a guy like Derek Ryan. He would make a lot of sense to me for what the Flames are looking for. Bill Peters really liked him. He’s not going to cost you a ton. He’s a really easy-going, good guy and I think he’s an Alberta boy right, so I could see that being a match for you guys."

So it's not as if he was saying it would happen. He was just saying he could see it making sense. But I just feel like this is going to happen given how much Peters liked Ryan.

I thought I'd just post some thoughts about Ryan:

Analysis

Ryan has played a lot of the last couple seasons with a really good linemate in Jeff Skinner. He has also been pretty sheltered, getting high OZS and played against below average competition. Because of this, he should have had fantastic results if he is any good at all.

His results were much better in 2017-2018 than 2016-2017. His possession stats improved dramatically. And his points per 60 at even strength also improved despite his shooting percentage decreasing from 15.1% to 11.1%. His raw totals also improved, going from 29 points in 67 games to 38 points in 80 games.

I don't feel excited for this player. The counting stats look just fine for a bottom 6 center and the possession stats are fine too. But how is this player going to do if he is not playing alongside a linemate like Jeff Skinner in the offensive zone against weak opposition? I don't know if the Flames want or need more players in need of sheltering. Plus, who is to say they aren't going to get 2016-17 Ryan instead of 2017-2018 Ryan?

There is risk here. I don't want to see anything more than a year or 2 at 1 million or less.

Data

-He has averaged 37.22 points / 82 games played over the last two seasons (his shooting percentage was really high at 15.1% in 2016-2017)

-He had 1.59 P / 60 at 5 v 5 in 2017-2018
-He had 1.42 P / 60 at 5 v 5 in 2016-2017

-in 2017-2018, Derek Ryan had 60% OZS and played against slightly weaker than average competition; he was somewhat sheltered
-in 2016-2017, he was similarly sheltered

-his possession stats improved dramatically from 2016-17 to 2017-18; 0.1% CF Rel% in 2016-2017 to 3.2% CF Rel% in 2017-2018 (in FF Rel%, he took an even bigger jump, -1.4% to +2.9%)

-He was better at shot suppression than shot generation in 2016-2017

2017-2018 linemates

16.42% EV RYAN,DEREK - SKINNER,JEFF - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
16.28% EV RYAN,DEREK - SKINNER,JEFF - STEMPNIAK,LEE
14.36% EV MCGINN,BROCK - RYAN,DEREK - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
7.96% EV LINDHOLM,ELIAS - RYAN,DEREK - SKINNER,JEFF
7.08% EV NORDSTROM,JOAKIM - RYAN,DEREK - STEMPNIAK,LEE

2016-2017 linemates

24.72% EV RYAN,DEREK - SKINNER,JEFF - STEMPNIAK,LEE
19.91% EV RASK,VICTOR - RYAN,DEREK - SKINNER,JEFF
7.82% EV MCGINN,BROCK - RYAN,DEREK - STEMPNIAK,LEE
5.01% EV MCGINN,BROCK - RYAN,DEREK - STAAL,JORDAN

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh God, not this again...

If his name is posted five times, does the candyman appear?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Why would we move our most consistent defender who is the backbone of this team?

Because I don't think this team is very good. If you're happy to keep fighting for that 8th spot and, if you get it, be rewarded with a quick four loss sweep, I guess keep the status quo.

If you think that Gulutzan was entirely to blame (like Hartley was...), I guess you could wait and see. But if that's another year wasted of Monahan, Hamilton and Gaudreau's prime (and with their solid contracts), another year of aging for Giordano and maybe most importantly the burning of the last year of Tkachuk's ELC, the team's window starts to fade quickly. Something needs to be done to change things up, I think that much is obvious.

If you can fill the holes someway else, of course do that. But it's easier said than done. Otherwise the Flames already would have had a top RW instead of two third liners in the top 6.

[Royle9]

Derek Ryan as a depth signing (3rd/4th liner) would get a passing grade to me (His F/O numbers are really good), however it doesn't directly address the bigger problem which is this teams lack of scoring threat on the right side.

So I hope if the Flames are in fact looking at Ryan they are also looking for that top 6 RW that can slot in on the PP as well.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Because I don't think this team is very good. If you're happy to keep fighting for that 8th spot and, if you get it, be rewarded with a quick four loss sweep, I guess keep the status quo.

If you think that Gulutzan was entirely to blame (like Hartley was...), I guess you could wait and see. But if that's another year wasted of Monahan, Hamilton and Gaudreau's prime (and with their solid contracts), another year of aging for Giordano and maybe most importantly the burning of the last year of Tkachuk's ELC, the team's window starts to fade quickly. Something needs to be done to change things up, I think that much is obvious.

If you can fill the holes someway else, of course do that. But it's easier said than done. Otherwise the Flames already would have had a top RW instead of two third liners in the top 6.

There should not be a panic to upgrade the team, the cup win shows that patience is the way to go and Washington was very patient with their team. Vegas made one panic deal and wasted a bunch of assets(Tatar for a 1,2, and 3). Basically thats the equivalent of the Hamonic trade for a scratch player.

I seem to remember last year people on this board saying the caps should trade Ovechkin and start a rebuild.

[Toonage]

I wouldn't suggest Washington was all that patient. This just happened to be the year where they figured they weren't a top contender and didn't make costly upgrades at the trade deadline. Funny how it worked out really.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Nelson

You’re consistent.

I think one thing in favour of trading Hamilton to Toronto for Nylander or Mariner is Dubas is a numbers guy so he probably appreciates how valuable Hamilton is, might be the right guy to trade with. But that’s just pure speculation.

Those are my thoughts. Dubas is a big time numbers guy and Hamilton puts up great numbers across the board. Nylander+ or Marner straight up would be fantastic adds for Calgary who do not have any decent right shot forwards. I would be pissed if the Flames traded Dougie for anything less than a young legit star forward. I just don’t see that happening with a deal based around Brodie

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

There should not be a panic to upgrade the team, the cup win shows that patience is the way to go and Washington was very patient with their team.

Washington's worst season is comparable to the Flames best in recent times. They missed the playoffs once in a decade, have won the President Trophy three times since 2010. If the Flames were routinely finishing with 100 points, yeah, be patience and stick to the status quo. But we're talking about a completely different scenario when the team has struggle to break 85 points.

Also the Stanley Cup winner before them happened to have a weak right-wing position, identified it as a weakness and went out and got a top right-winger by the name of Philip Joseph Kessel Jr. and that seemed to work for them.

[Tibnadian_tpd]

https://www.tsn.ca/agent-jets-petan-...g-in-1.1109159

Seems like Nic Petan's agent would welcome a change of scenery. Although Nic likes playing in Winnipeg, and wouldn't mind staying there, it doesn't change where he is on their depth chart.

He seems like a good complimentary player for a developing top 6, or at least a good fit in an established top 9. He's put up excellent numbers in the WHL and AHL, but only a modest 21 points in 95 games in the NHL. He's got some craftiness to him, kind of like a Steven Reinprecht. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing the Flames trade for this undersized, 23 year old RFA.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Tibnadian_tpd

https://www.tsn.ca/agent-jets-petan-...g-in-1.1109159

Seems like Nic Petan's agent would welcome a change of scenery. Although Nic likes playing in Winnipeg, and wouldn't mind staying there, it doesn't change where he is on their depth chart.

He seems like a good complimentary player for a developing top 6, or at least a good fit in an established top 9. He's put up excellent numbers in the WHL and AHL, but only a modest 21 points in 95 games in the NHL. He's got some craftiness to him, kind of like a Steven Reinprecht. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing the Flames trade for this undersized, 23 year old RFA.

I remember really hoping the Flames would end up guys like Petan and Bowey from that 2013 draft. I can't imagine it would cost the Flames much to trade for him.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Tibnadian_tpd

https://www.tsn.ca/agent-jets-petan-...g-in-1.1109159

Seems like Nic Petan's agent would welcome a change of scenery. Although Nic likes playing in Winnipeg, and wouldn't mind staying there, it doesn't change where he is on their depth chart.

He seems like a good complimentary player for a developing top 6, or at least a good fit in an established top 9. He's put up excellent numbers in the WHL and AHL, but only a modest 21 points in 95 games in the NHL. He's got some craftiness to him, kind of like a Steven Reinprecht. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing the Flames trade for this undersized, 23 year old RFA.

I second this. Get Petan!

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I remember really hoping the Flames would end up guys like Petan and Bowey from that 2013 draft. I can't imagine it would cost the Flames much to trade for him.

but instead the smartest guys in the room got us Poirier and Klimchuk. They did bring in Petan for an interview so believe he was next on their list. Thing is, can you have Johnny and another midget in the top 6?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Did you ask why would actual money matter?

By the time these contracts end the cap ceiling could be 90M+. Even now we're looking at some pretty big discrepancy in spending. There's far more teams trying to stay in budget then trying to reach the ceiling. Salaries, if they aren't already, will be just as important than actual cap to the average team. It's easy to play fantasy GM and talk as though $5,000,000.00 is nothing but that's 5 million dollar differences. It's a big deal even for NHL owners.

If Kessel at 34 has declined, he's probably still going to be worth 5M to one of the many non-cap teams that wants a top-6 winger.

If Giordano at 38 has declined, I don't think there will be many takers wanting a 6.7M top-4 defender.

Well yes, I get the part where money matters... but in my opinion the cap hit is a bigger concern. I see what you're saying about teams trying to reach the floor, and I thought of that myself. I guess it's easy enough to retain a bit with Gio.

Anyway, I think trading Gio creates a much bigger hole at this time than getting Kessel fills.

[ComixZone]

Derek Ryan is 31, and will be 32 this December.

No.

We don't have anyone as good as Skinner to play him with, and we don't need to invest in bottom 6 veteran forwards who are already nearing or crossing over that line into their descent.

...it's totally going to happen, and then everyone will be screaming at Mangiapane for not producing offensively while lining up next to Ryan and Brouwer.

[Toonage]

It would also cost close to $2M to sign Ryan. Just doesn't seem worth it.