Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Scroopy Noopers]

Why can’t he get through an interview without snarky put downs? Drives me crazy. He’s so smart and I’m glad he’s in charge of things. But just shut up already.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Why can’t he get through an interview without snarky put downs? Drives me crazy. He’s so smart and I’m glad he’s in charge of things. But just shut up already.

Because his ego won't allow for it.

[Manhattanboy]

Not all that smart and not glad he’s in charge of anything.

[shotinthebacklund]

Immediately after negotiations restart and he starts with his snarky egotistical remarks. There was zero need to rehash old sentiments and just move on. No hope this gets done with his involvement so hopefully he takes a back seat as reported a few weeks ago.

[Toonage]

Sassy. Best word I can think of to describe him.

Not a compliment.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Because his ego won't allow for it.

For a guy that ran his first campaign on being the approachable choice, a "people's mayor", he sure has made a full 180 over the last 5 years. Now he's the smartest man in the room, and anybody that has different point of view is his inferior. Really had it with all the belittling and condescension. Who da f are ya? Civil discourse should be civil.

[Strange Brew]

I don't like getting in someone else's head but in this case, I bet it really grinds his gears that the city is trying to come back to the table. In such a public way. Give the Flames credit for this piece of their strategy working.

[Monahammer]

I don't think anyone was trying to downplay the concert impact, but if all of you are so certain they do have a notable impact, why wouldn't the flames just want to own it and profit then? Damn guys, it's pretty obvious the business case isn't profitable for new digs, that's why the two sides are playing hot potato with the actual asset.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't like getting in someone else's head but in this case, I bet it really grinds his gears that the city is trying to come back to the table. In such a public way. Give the Flames credit for this piece of their strategy working.

Weak AF. They would have come back on their own if you'd given them 6 more months. Especially if they have another bad season, they might even have had some humility.
Instead we just bend over and grab the Vaseline.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I don't think anyone was trying to downplay the concert impact, but if all of you are so certain they do have a notable impact, why wouldn't the flames just want to own it and profit then? Damn guys, it's pretty obvious the business case isn't profitable for new digs, that's why the two sides are playing hot potato with the actual asset.

Of course the concerts etc has an impact...

I assume since the cost to build an arena is $300m plus (guess) is probably the reason they are looking for municipal assistance

Whether they should receive assistance is another question.

Both sides are basically posturing...

For example the Mayor wants to call it an "Arena" not an "event center".. that's posturing.

Flames continue with no comment

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I don't think anyone was trying to downplay the concert impact, but if all of you are so certain they do have a notable impact, why wouldn't the flames just want to own it and profit then? Damn guys, it's pretty obvious the business case isn't profitable for new digs, that's why the two sides are playing hot potato with the actual asset.

So if indeed this type of venture isn't positive then as a city are comfortable not having these types of facilities and the events that go with them (including pro sports)
Because that's fine if we are.
But if we aren't - then a solution needs to be found.

[Bunk]

I think there's one strategic element of this Notice of Motion missing in the conversation - which is that if there is real fear that the Flames are going to pull up stakes and move, they can't now reasonably say there was no interest in finding a deal.

It would not surprise me if Gary Bettman wanted to make an example of a municipality for not laying down to an ownership group on the issue of an arena.

When the idea of this was floated the statement was very much in the vein of "nothing has changed", which had the stink of them finding excuses not to negotiate so they could justify a move.

As a municipality you don't want to negotiate with yourself, but they can avoid that if they limit the scope of this exercise to start with by just inviting them to the table. I also think they have to look at quite a different financing structure than the first go around - not just slosh around more or less public money under the same framework. Something creative like ROFRs on City land, or guaranteed equity stake in vertical development with private partners when City land is sold in the area, or something like that.

[Locke]

Just get the Federal Government to pay for it while their wallet is open.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Bunk how do we get you at the negotiating table? You've said more intelligent things and exhibited a deeper understanding of the issues in play than anyone from either side.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Because his ego won't allow for it.

I don't know if he has a life partner but I have to imagine compatibility would hinge on his partner having a very agreeable personality.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Bunk how do we get you at the negotiating table? You've said more intelligent things and exhibited a deeper understanding of the issues in play than anyone from either side.

That's very nice of you to say. Thank you.

In all seriousness, the best thing that could happen to get this going is the Flames getting a more real estate minded person leading the charge from CSEC. This is much more a real estate project than just a facility for games an concerts (although that is important). On the City side, they have elevated CMLC in the negotiation - which is smart. This is their core competency.

[Senator Clay Davis]

We all know that anything less than the Edmonton deal is unacceptable for the owners, so if we're gonna waste the money on the plebiscite for the Olympics, bundle this in there as a separate question. If people are seriously cool with the Edmonton deal, so be it. But we know the owners are not taking 0.000000001% less than what Katz got.

Oh yeah, reminder: Edmonton is absolutely no ####ing good, at anything.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I don't think anyone was trying to downplay the concert impact, but if all of you are so certain they do have a notable impact, why wouldn't the flames just want to own it and profit then? Damn guys, it's pretty obvious the business case isn't profitable for new digs, that's why the two sides are playing hot potato with the actual asset.

That's not just my take, it's from media and others. Normally, a guy like Nenshi would promote the label of "Event Centre" versus "Arena" because the latter connotes just sports and not general entertainment. But because that labeling makes the CSEG argument about community benefit a little better be was (a) taking the opposite preference and (b) downplaying the label.

If the Flames don't own it, but only lease it they get the same profit BTW.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

We all know that anything less than the Edmonton deal is unacceptable for the owners, so if we're gonna waste the money on the plebiscite for the Olympics, bundle this in there as a separate question. If people are seriously cool with the Edmonton deal, so be it. But we know the owners are not taking 0.000000001% less than what Katz got.

Oh yeah, reminder: Edmonton is absolutely no ####ing good, at anything.

That anything less than what the Oilers got is just posturing as things went south in a hurry. They were pretty damn close last time.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Why can’t he get through an interview without snarky put downs? Drives me crazy. He’s so smart and I’m glad he’s in charge of things. But just shut up already.

Klein does it, he is the best mayor in history!
Nenshi does it, he is the biggest egotistical smarmass in history!

I don't mind it one single bit. I wish Trudeau would grow a backbone and start biting back more.