2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just don't get you man.

You're either trying as hard as you can to seem reasonable so you can argue, or you are literally the polar opposite thinker to every thing that runs through my mind.

I have a feeling it's the first.

You had Toronto in a position of strength but now they need their young forwards? That doesn't add up.

Stone isn't the Flames position of strength ... three or four emerging young defenseman while having a solid top four is. That allows them to either move a top prospect for a top forward prospect or if they think they're ready a veteran for a forward. It's not challenging stuff to understand.

Some teams assume their youth is ready and clear space. Other teams like Calgary build out teams and make the youth steal jobs. Stone doesn't have negative value so signing him for three years and making someone steal his job is solid business in my mind.

Toronto's position of Strength is 105 pts 49 wins. They did that with a lot of players under 25. They have guys ready to move up that have shown they are NHL calibre players... That is a position of strength.

They should not be in a panic to make improvements.. Their first option is to go with the guys that got them 49 wins.

They are losing UFA's JVR , Bozak, Komorav , Moore, Polak and rental Plekanec.

Signed for next Year, (5) Kadri, Marleau, , Hyman, Connor Brown And Matt Martin.

With Mathews, Marner and Nylander they have 6 returning forward who played top-6 minutes.

They have all 4 of their top-4 d-men coming back

Their #5-7 for 2018-19 Dermott, Carrick Brown and Borgman played 30+ games and had a bigger role in games they played than Kulak had with the Flames.

They can go into next year expecting to make the playoffs with the players they currently have.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Toronto's position of Strength is 105 pts 49 wins. They did that with a lot of players under 25. They have guys ready to move up that have shown they are NHL calibre players... That is a position of strength.

They should not be in a panic to make improvements.. Their first option is to go with the guys that got them 49 wins.

They are losing UFA's JVR , Bozak, Komorav , Moore, Polak and rental Plekanec.

Signed for next Year, (5) Kadri, Marleau, , Hyman, Connor Brown And Matt Martin.

With Mathews, Marner and Nylander they have 6 returning forward who played top-6 minutes.

They have all 4 of their top-4 d-men coming back

Their #5-7 for 2018-19 Dermott, Carrick Brown and Borgman played 30+ games and had a bigger role in games they played than Kulak had with the Flames.

They can go into next year expecting to make the playoffs with the players they currently have.

And that is where the problem lies for them.They need to improve that top 4 as they were not good enough to get them where they need to be, hence the trade rumors to upgrade that group. To do so, they will trade from a position of strength which is, as you point out, their forward group.

What are you even arguing at this point?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

1st pairing? That’s a lofty upside. I like Andersson but with his skating I’m not convinced he’s a lock to be a top 4 dman. I think our only prospect with top pairing potential is Valimaki.

That's just my opinion, I'm pretty high on Anderson. That article written by a Leaf fan for Leaf fans also seems pretty high on Anderson. When a leaf fan base is gushing about one of your prospects, that's saying something.


But even if he is a second pairing defenceman, like a TJ Brodie, I still don't trade him for a Frolik type player. So unless you think Anderson's upside is Michael Stone, then I don't think you trade him for Kapanen.

Kapanen is being overvalued because he plays for the leafs, just like Gary Leeman and Matt Stajan before him.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What are you even arguing at this point?

A question that must be asked after almost every one of Ricardo’s posts. He doesn’t argue in the same reality the rest of us do.

[Geeoff]

I think the Toronto media would #### a brick if the Leafs didn't make changes after two consecutive 1st round exits.


Flames thought they would make the playoffs this year too. Nothing is guaranteed.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Toronto's position of Strength is...

... that they play in the Eastern conference.

[Oling_Roachinen]

That barely matters, if at all. Last time I checked, not end of season, there was about 59% point-percentage for the West and 52% point-percentage for the East. It took 95 points to make the playoffs for the West and 97 to make it for the East. Two years ago (pre-Vegas), Colorado finished in 9th in the West with 82 points - Boston finished 9th with 92. Each conference had 11 teams above 80, and the bottom four, Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver and Ottawa, were equally terrible throughout the year. The East teams, in particular Buffalo, simply tanked at the end as they do. For much of the season Arizona was worse than Buffalo.

The last 2 Stanley Cups were won by the East and their hardest challenges came against the Eastern teams enroute to the Cup, not against the western challenger.

I don't think the West can boast being greater, at least not by much, any more.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by VilleN

My bad, didn't mean to quote you, but hey, it got a response. I think Stone for Kapanen is more of a fair deal... probably Stone + a lower tier prospect, maybe Poirier or Klimchuk.

I agree, but does Kapanen even fill a need for us?
As FDW noted earlier Ferland has been our 1RW, and we want someone to push him down to the second line or further. Kapanen is not better than Ferland.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I agree, but does Kapanen even fill a need for us?
As FDW noted earlier Ferland has been our 1RW, and we want someone to push him down to the second line or further. Kapanen is not better than Ferland.

The organization as a whole is not exactly flush with young, promising right wingers.

[Phaneufenstein]

I'd be wary of point totals put up by the Leafs forwards and how those point totals translate to a new environment. That team had a lot of offensive confidence and scored a lot last year. I don't think Nylander is a 60-point player on the Flames if you look at our past season.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I agree, but does Kapanen even fill a need for us?
As FDW noted earlier Ferland has been our 1RW, and we want someone to push him down to the second line or further. Kapanen is not better than Ferland.

I agree, having better scoring depth is always good though. If we can't improve our top 6 rw through a trade (ie Hamilton for Marner type deal), and therefore improve our bottom 6 by pushing guys like Ferland down the lineup, then I think a guy like Kapanen could help. Hard to say tho, looking at his numbers I don't know that he's any better than a guy like Mangiapane.

[Strange Brew]

I think Ricrado's arguing that the Leafs are a good young team who can perhaps still improve from within as their young guys get better. Which would mean they shouldn't be desperate to make a trade.

Anyway back to the Flames. I don't want the Flames desperate to make a trade either.

But the whole dealing from a position of strength is a bit of a fallacy. If you have assets that other teams covet, then you are in a good position. It was widely known that guys like Drouin and Hamonic wanted out, and their GM's made out OK since they were players that team coveted. I am not nearly as sure as many of the people posting here as to what the market is like for the Flames defensemen.

[Monahammer]

Kapanen is not going to be the difference maker we're all hoping for. I still contend that it's not even a RW we really need, but a line driving Centre who can push Backlund's line to the third line slot.

Also I don't even understand the love for Kapanen, Mangiapane is just as good and Andersson certainly has more value.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Kapanen is not going to be the difference maker we're all hoping for. I still contend that it's not even a RW we really need, but a line driving Centre who can push Backlund's line to the third line slot.

Also I don't even understand the love for Kapanen, Mangiapane is just as good and Andersson certainly has more value.

A line driving centre would certainly be more valuable to this team, but I don't see a scenario where the Flames can add that.

Either Tavares signs here (very long shot, could happen), or Bennett or Jankowski take a massive step this next season.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by VilleN

A line driving centre would certainly be more valuable to this team, but I don't see a scenario where the Flames can add that.

Either Tavares signs here (very long shot, could happen), or Bennett or Jankowski take a massive step this next season.

Ryan O’Rielly could be available via trade.

[Monahammer]

I like the idea of O'Rielly and have been an ardent supporter of that before, but lately I'm getting cold feet on the idea as more people have shown further analysis that he's a good candidate to not produce as much on our team. That, plus his contract and the likely higher cost of acquisition give me a lot of pause. If Brodie for O'Rielly with minor other pieces could be worked out I would be all for it, but not much more.

I don't think we should trade Hamilton, but he does represent the best opportunity for us to acquire a game changer. Mark Stone isn't a centre like I was pitching above, but he can drive a line and could likely make Jankowski-Bennett a whole lot better. I would ask for an add from Ottawa to that deal though. Marner still seems unrealistic to me but I would also pull the trigger on that swap. Otherwise I think you're right in saying it's a hard ask- there's not much out there that's reasonably acquirable.

I'm still hoping for a Tavares signing and an enormous back tattoo to match

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm still hoping for a Tavares signing and an enormous back tattoo to match

Hey, if BT pulls it off I will be happy to do it in the name of Flames dominance. Pretty sure I am safe though

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Kapanen is not going to be the difference maker we're all hoping for. I still contend that it's not even a RW we really need, but a line driving Centre who can push Backlund's line to the third line slot.

Also I don't even understand the love for Kapanen, Mangiapane is just as good and Andersson certainly has more value.

My opinion is that we need both.

Gaudreau - Monahan - ???
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett -??? - Ferland
Shore* - Jankowski* - Lazar/Brouwer/Hathaway*
*must be resigned

-Mangiapane (LW, C), Foo (RW), Dube (C), Gawdin (RW, darkhorse), Phillipps (RW, extreme darkhorse) may all push for spots. However, I don't feel like betting on Foo, Gawdin or Phillipps to play in the 1RW position.
-I like Foo to take the 4RW spot. Unfortunately, we are going to see Brouwer and I am going to hate it.
-If Bennett - ??? - Ferland line was given very protected, offensive minutes, maybe Mangiapane or Dube could play the 3rd line role. But it might be too much to ask Mangiapane or Dube to deal with Bennett's chaos. A solution would be to drop Tkachuk to the 3LW spot and promote Bennett to 2LW, but I hate the idea of giving Tkachuk less ice time. Therefore, there really isn't a solution to the 3C issue.

All things considered, I think we need a good 3C and a 1 RW. If you say Ferland is a 1RW or the Flames just can't get a 1RW, you could say the Flames need a 3C and 3RW. Either way, the Flames should aim to acquire a fast and skilled 3C and a fast and skilled RW.

Of course, if you push Backlund's line down to the 3rd line and switch Tkachuk and Bennett, then you need a 2C and 1RW or 2RW. It doesn't really matter.

I think they need a C and a RW.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

It is funny that Leaf fans call Sam Bennett a huge bust but talk about Kapanen as some great asset. Do they forget these players were drafted the same year?

I mean to this point Sam Bennett has been a bust. 4th overall pick who has been outplayed by the lots of players taken after him. While not really having shown much progress. Kapanen was taken 22nd which means it's expected to take time for him to make a mark at the NHL level if he ever does.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by 868904

That's just my opinion, I'm pretty high on Anderson. That article written by a Leaf fan for Leaf fans also seems pretty high on Anderson. When a leaf fan base is gushing about one of your prospects, that's saying something.


But even if he is a second pairing defenceman, like a TJ Brodie, I still don't trade him for a Frolik type player. So unless you think Anderson's upside is Michael Stone, then I don't think you trade him for Kapanen.

Kapanen is being overvalued because he plays for the leafs, just like Gary Leeman and Matt Stajan before him.

Kapanen has appeal because he has great speed. I’ve yet to see much finish despite the breakaways.