2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I don't think that's true anymore. Boeser looks like a much better point producer than Bennett at this point though. I don't think anyone would deny that.

Logic would dictate that you're right, but go read the Bennett thread.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by wretched34

While Boeser showed this season that he can score, it's one season, there needs to be consistency before you can call him Elite.
Horvat may never be more than a 40-50 point 2nd/3rd line center.

The Flames have a bonafide "Elite" winger in Gaudreau, and Tkachuk has just as much promise as Boeser to be an "Elite" Winger as well.

As for Centers, I put Monahan and Backlund ahead of Horvat, both Offensively, and Defensively, and Jankowski looks like he can be a 20+ goal scorer as well as very defensively responsible.

So, if your argument is that the Canucks have 1 "Elite" forward for Tavares to play with, and a "very good" 2nd line center to back him up, as a Flames fan, I raise you an "Elite" forward and 2 "Very Good" Centers.

You're crazy to think Vancouvers roster is more attractive than the Flames to a player who is looking to win.

I never said vancouver is a more attractive place than Calgary if you want to win.

My contention is that if you're John Tavares, having an elite goal scorer to play with and a centre below you to help take the load off is an attractive situation. Having Gaudreau on your wing is attractive too.

Calgary has a similar but not the same situation, but if you're a millionaire the city isn't as nice, and if you've played your whole life on Long Island, it's likely a more significant departure for your current lifestyle than living in Vancouver.

The entirety of the argument is based around a desire to win not mattering, because if he's desperate for that, there are better landing pads than Vancouver and Calgary.

[Roof-Daddy]

If I'm the Flames, the selling point on winning is this:

Gaudreau - Tavares - ________
Tkachuk - Monahan - ________
_______ - Backlund - ________


Deep at center, 4 out of top 6 is high end, and all locked up for a MINIMUM of 4 years, or at least under team control in Tkachuk's case. Plus, 3 of 5 under 25, and all under 30 right now. Decent wingers are easy to find to fill out the rest of the roster when your core is built like that.

Then on the back end:

Giordano - Hamilton
TJ Brodie - Hamonic
Br. Kulak - Stone
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Fox

Solid current Dcore, all locked up 2 years minimum, with a lot of very high end D prospects waiting in the wings to replace when needed.

Goaltending is the weak point and huge question mark going forward, at least in regards to winning though. That's a problem for sure, especially with what JT has dealt with in New York for almost a decade. But Smith's good for next year at least, you'd just have to sell him on the trio of Rittich/Gillies/Parsons being able to step up, or maybe snag Holtby or someone at the draft before free agency hits.

A big wild card also, is Hamonic. If they are really close then he could be a big influence on JT's decision.

[bax]

Vancouver has zero chance to sign Tavares. I would put the Flames odds at around 2%.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I never said vancouver is a more attractive place than Calgary if you want to win.

My contention is that if you're John Tavares, having an elite goal scorer to play with and a centre below you to help take the load off is an attractive situation. Having Gaudreau on your wing is attractive too.

Calgary has a similar but not the same situation, but if you're a millionaire the city isn't as nice, and if you've played your whole life on Long Island, it's likely a more significant departure for your current lifestyle than living in Vancouver.

The entirety of the argument is based around a desire to win not mattering, because if he's desperate for that, there are better landing pads than Vancouver and Calgary.

It's pretty clear what you did to anyone who's paying attention.

At some point a page back it was insinuated if Tavares wants to win Calgary and Vancouver are about equal, with someone going so far as to say Vancouver is "close to turning it around".

You're now furthering that notion by talking about one or two of their players and then going on to say it would be "similar" with Calgary. Nonsense.

It's just another opportunity for you to get a subtle, self-depreciating dig in at the Flames which is quite funny, because Vancouver as an organization is miles behind.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Lets say you're right and draft position does matter, what about Johnny? He was drafted in the 4th round, so do we need to wait 4times as long as someone drafted in the 1st round before we call him elite?
He was named the second coming of christ after his rookie season, how come there weren't too many people on this board saying we should wait another few seasons before we call him elite?

Johnny had 3 years wowing the world at BC putting up gaudy numbers from 18-20. Was Boeser the MVP of the National Championship team as a rookie? Did he lead the USA in goals on a gold medal winning world junior team? Did he average 2ppg and win the Hobey Baker as a Junior in college?

While we were calling him the second coming a lot of skeptics out there dismissed him plenty up until he finished 6th in league scoring during his sophomore year

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by bax

Vancouver has zero chance to sign Tavares. I would put the Flames odds at around 2%.

Depends if Tavares wants a nice city to live in get paid crazy money and a team that soon will be on the rise Vancouver could be the destination.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Depends if Tavares wants a nice city to live in get paid crazy money and a team that soon will be on the rise Vancouver could be the destination.

Problem is that until you are on the rise you are not on the rise and the majority of teams on the rise never make the next step (Panthers, Coyotes, Oilers, Hurricanes, Sabres, etc.) and Tvares knows that quite well considering the Islanders have supposedly been on the rise since he got drafted by them.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Depends if Tavares wants a nice city to live in get paid crazy money and a team that soon will be on the rise Vancouver could be the destination.

With the Sedins leaving I would think Vancouver is an early favourite to be bottom of the league next year. On the rise? You mean in 3 years, maybe? There is no reason to think Vancouver is anywhere close to contending. They have only just started to rebuild properly.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Depends if Tavares wants a nice city to live in get paid crazy money and a team that soon will be on the rise Vancouver could be the destination.

Why is Vancouver a team that is soon be on the rise? Of all the teams to pick, you choose the one who just lost their 1st and 3rd leading point producers for nothing? Who's best, and only top 4, defenseman is on the other side of 30?

Boeser looks great. But Virtanen has been a disappointment, Juolevi looks like a misstep when they could have had a number of other players, Pettersson is fine but he's no Patrick or Hischier, who themselves aren't really players to build a championship around. And now after a pitiful year they get the 7th overall due to the draft lottery not going their way.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Yes, they are. That's where you're wrong in all of this... which is the biggest factor in where someone like Tavares is going to be looking to sign. He's just spent years on a defensively inept team, and in this very post you just mentioned Vancouver may trade their best defensemen as part of their early rebuild.

They have a dismal back-end moving forward. That's a huge key in "turning it around" that they're not even close to beginning to address.

It makes them go from a remote chance of attracting a UFA like this to pretty much zero.

Perhaps. This discussion is getting a little silly. Stating someone is 'right' or 'wrong' doesn't really prove anything. It's speculation, you can't argue it's factual because it's not. Neither of us know these things without a doubt because we have no control or insight knowledge what the Canucks, or any other team, might do.

The things we are discussing are way too fluid. Friedman and Marek were speculating whether or not the Canucks could try to acquire both Karlson & Taveres after the Sedins announced their retirement on the 31 thoughts podcast. Obviously, they were speculating, but those are two pretty intelligent guys who have been doing what they do for a living for a long time, and neither are really known for hot takery. Every year we see things happen that leave people saying 'wow, I didn't see that coming'. Look at what Nashville has done over the past two years.

As I've said a number of times I think Tavares is unlikely to sign in Vancouver. So we can agree on that. I would say he's also unlikely to sign in Calgary.

the Canucks look to have some quality pieces in and have a generous amount of cap space and are a cap team. We see it every year now, teams that have these resources are able to bounce from being poor to strong quickly. That shouldn't be disregarded.

All this said, enough already on the Canucks. What's it going to take to get RoR playing for the Flames?

[GoJetsGo]

My favourite is how Vancouver is "on the rise" and "just about to turn it around" while likely looking to shop one of their only serviceable defensemen this summer with next to no depth on their blue-line /. in their system.

They're several years away... from being the 17/18 Islanders minus Tavares (a defensive nightmare).

[bax]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Depends if Tavares wants a nice city to live in get paid crazy money and a team that soon will be on the rise Vancouver could be the destination.

It really doesn't depend on anything. It won't happen.

Tavares has repeatedly said that winning is the most important thing for him. He is not going to sign with the team that has the worst record in the entire league over the past three years and is showing no signs of improving.

Vancouver has had some really bad lottery luck drafting 5, 5, and 7 in the last three drafts. It's ugly there.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I forgot about Tanev, but seeing as he'll be hurt half the time Tavares is there anyways, it's inconsequential.

It's a team that, as it stands now, has Baertschi and Horvat on the top line with no depth behind them and no sure-fire prospects in the cupboards to replace anyone. It's not my Canucks hate, I'm almost to the point I just feel bad for them, they have nothing going for them and won't for some time.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

VAN is an Eichel and Ristolainen away from being BUF. How much of a contender was BUF this season? So how is VAN going to rise? They have no franchise player. They have a couple nice pieces and a couple nice prospects. That’s literally it. That doesn’t equate to being on the rise. That should equate to a few years at the bottom of the league until they luck into a franchise player in the draft.

[theslymonkey]

If I was betting on where JT signs, it starts in San Jose.
Strong team, D is set, Top Goalie, Lots of money coming off the books...
And who wouldn't want to be on a playoff team in SoCal?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

If I was betting on where JT signs, it starts in San Jose.
Strong team, D is set, Top Goalie, Lots of money coming off the books...
And who wouldn't want to be on a playoff team in SoCal?

SJ is in Northern California.

[Oling_Roachinen]

To bring the conversations together, Tavares should just go to the Sabres, probably a good mix of everything. Stay in New York but be close to Toronto. Have the cap-space to pay him but a contending team on the rise.

He has a point-per-game producing winger there waiting for him in Okposo. At least the last time they played together he was. And there's potentially 2 other franchise players in Eichel and Dahlin. That would be a coup. And his best buddy Moulson is there (sort of).

XXX-Tavares-Okposo
Mittelstadt-Eichel-Reinhart
XXX-O'Reilly-Pominville

Nylander, Rodrigues, or whoever breaks out fills in the XXX. That's a scary top 9 and most teams would be happy to have that 'second line' as their top line going forward. Dahlin-Ristolainen are likely to be a great top pairing in a couple years. If Ullmark meets even half-expectations, then that team is a contender if not favourite.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

SJ is in Northern California.

Semantics, you know what I meant.

Correction...NoCal.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

To bring the conversations together, Tavares should just go to the Sabres, probably a good mix of everything. Stay in New York but be close to Toronto. Have the cap-space to pay him but a contending team on the rise.

He has a point-per-game producing winger there waiting for him in Okposo. At least the last time they played together he was. And there's potentially 2 other franchise players in Eichel and Dahlin. That would be a coup. And his best buddy Moulson is there (sort of).

XXX-Tavares-Okposo
Mittelstadt-Eichel-Reinhart
XXX-O'Reilly-Pominville

Nylander, Rodrigues, or whoever breaks out fills in the XXX. That's a scary top 9 and most teams would be happy to have that 'second line' as their top line going forward. Dahlin-Ristolainen are likely to be a great top pairing in a couple years. If Ullmark meets even half-expectations, then that team is a contender if not favourite.

That would be a massive leap of faith for JT if he wants to win.

The Sabres have missed the playoffs 7 straight seasons with point totals of 89, 48, 52, 54, 81, 78 and 62.

The Flames had a rough year this year and still managed 84 points.