Islanders (Flames') First Round Pick

[CalgaryFan1988]

If the Flames didn't have Hamonic, they wouldn't have finished where they did in the standings. This thread is about as productive as a Jokinen/Brandon Gormley discussion.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

If the Flames didn't have Hamonic, they wouldn't have finished where they did in the standings. This thread is about as productive as a Jokinen/Brandon Gormley discussion.

Bull.

If you'd said: "If the Flames didnt have Gulutzan they wouldnt have finished where they did in the standings'

I'd be more likely to believe that.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

If the Flames didn't have Hamonic, they wouldn't have finished where they did in the standings. This thread is about as productive as a Jokinen/Brandon Gormley discussion.

What's the spin here? The Flames we're better off in the Standings with Hamonic? That's honestly not saying much. And I think a lot of fans could sleep better knowing that there was an I coming top tiier player if they kept the pick and ran with Andersson let's say.

Either way, this topic is a very dead horse. At least I think k it was a horse, all I see is goo on the floor.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Locke

Bull.

If you'd said: "If the Flames didnt have Gulutzan they wouldnt have finished where they did in the standings'

I'd be more likely to believe that.

Originally Posted by dammage79

What's the spin here? The Flames we're better off in the Standings with Hamonic? That's honestly not saying much. And I think a lot of fans could sleep better knowing that there was an I coming top tiier player if they kept the pick and ran with Andersson let's say.

Either way, this topic is a very dead horse. At least I think k it was a horse, all I see is goo on the floor.

Not saying the Flames would have finished below or above where they did with or without Hamonic, just saying that the pick isn't where the Flames would have picked regardless. Not sure what "bull" that entails.

These "what if" threads are useless.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What's the spin here? The Flames we're better off in the Standings with Hamonic? That's honestly not saying much. And I think a lot of fans could sleep better knowing that there was an I coming top tiier player if they kept the pick and ran with Andersson let's say.

Either way, this topic is a very dead horse. At least I think k it was a horse, all I see is goo on the floor.

What "top tier" player? There's a 2.5% chance right now of getting the top pick. Who, as a D, might not even play for a few years.

[PlayfulGenius]

Worrying whether the pick wins the lottery is ridiculous, as it's extremely unlikely the Flames finish in the exact position had they not made the trade for Hamonic... if the pick turns into a top 3 does NOT mean the Flames would've picked top 3 had they not made the trade.

[Owen15]

I’m way more concerned that Edmonton or Vancouver land Brady than NYI winning the lottery. That would really suck. Damn I think it’s happening.

[Poe969]

I hope the islanders win. It means the Oilers don't.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What's the spin here? The Flames we're better off in the Standings with Hamonic? That's honestly not saying much. And I think a lot of fans could sleep better knowing that there was an I coming top tiier player if they kept the pick and ran with Andersson let's say.

Either way, this topic is a very dead horse. At least I think k it was a horse, all I see is goo on the floor.

Flames would have been better off in the standings if they kept Engelland and not make the trade for Hamonic.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Flames would have been better off in the standings if they kept Engelland and not make the trade for Hamonic.

Who should have they left unprotected in the expansion draft to allow that to happen?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Who should have they left unprotected in the expansion draft to allow that to happen?

He was a UFA and destined to sign with Vegas.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He was a UFA and destined to sign with Vegas.

that too

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I assume that he didn’t think Stone should be in the Top-4 when he went out and got another top-4 guy without moving anybody else. Of course, those players are fluid and he has played in the top-4 in the past, but BT clearly wanted an upgrade.

I’m not sure Engelland was fed up, as much he just wanted to play for his home town. Understandable, common, and something he’s said himself. If you have any quotes or other insider info, let us know. But who here truly thought that he earned full time in the top-4 during his time here, apart from that run into the playoffs with Gio down. He’s playing well for Vegas no doubt, but playing in the top-4 and having a bonafide top-4 D skill set are two separate issues

and yet Engelland played 18:40 last year in 81 games. 19:03 / game in the post all star games when the Flames were actually good. If he wasn't top 4 he was the heaviest used # 5 in the league.


And somehow Vegas is a better team than any team the Flames have had in the last 14 years playing a guy without top-4 defensive skills in a top-4 role???

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Who should have they left unprotected in the expansion draft to allow that to happen?

really??? Lazar was protected.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

and yet Engelland played 18:40 last year in 81 games. 19:03 / game in the post all star games when the Flames were actually good. If he wasn't top 4 he was the heaviest used # 5 in the league.


And somehow Vegas is a better team than any team the Flames have had in the last 14 years playing a guy without top-4 defensive skills in a top-4 role???

Vegas doesn't have a top 4. They run all three defensive pairings almost equally. Nate Schmidt led the team with 22:14 TOI/GP. Six other defencemen exceeded 19 minutes.

The fact is, the Golden Knights are a team without any plugs, because unlike any other expansion team in history, they had access to enough good players to fill the entire roster. They made good use of that unique opportunity, and proved it by finishing 5th out of 31 teams.

Yeah. ‘Somehow’ Vegas is a better team than the Flames. It's a better team than Pittsburgh or Washington, too. And Deryk Engelland has very little to do with that. So knock it off with the daft comparisons.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

really??? Lazar was protected.

Doesn’t matter as they would have either had to leave a dman unprotected (Brodie, Hamilton or Gio) or expose lazar and two other forwards
They could either do 7f 3d or 8 total

So that means
Gio
Hamilton
Brodie
DE
Johnny
Sam
Backlund
Monahan

So that’s 8 leaving Lazar, Ferland, Frolik all exposed. All to protect a pending ufa who seemed on his way to Vegas. That’s nuts.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

really??? Lazar was protected.

So you wanted the Flames to protect Engelland, even though he had zero intention of re-signing here, and was never going to play another game for the team? Brilliant.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I hope the islanders win. It means the Oilers don't.

100% agree. I'd rather be ridiculed than have the Oilers brag about and then proceed to ruin another #1 overall. And who knows, with another generational player, the Oilers might actually be good (I can't believe I wrote that ).

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Doesn’t matter as they would have either had to leave a dman unprotected (Brodie, Hamilton or Gio) or expose lazar and two other forwards
They could either do 7f 3d or 8 total

So that means
Gio
Hamilton
Brodie
DE
Johnny
Sam
Backlund
Monahan

So that’s 8 leaving Lazar, Ferland, Frolik all exposed. All to protect a pending ufa who seemed on his way to Vegas. That’s nuts.

Totally valid point on the expansion draft. I was wrong to think that the Flames should have protected Engelland.... well obviously they couldn't as he was a UFA.

With 20/20 hind sight UFA Backlund / Frolik / Ferland/ Sam and Lazar and Brodie looked a lot better at expansion draft time than they do today.

The point I am trying to make with Engelland was that Hamonic was brought in as a replacement and based on the 2016-17 season Hamonic was not an upgrade. Somehow the Flames management (and fan base) missed this

A common reason for acquiring Hamonic was keeping him away from Edmonton. That is never a good reason....

also he was a "value" contract at 3.85m for another 3 years.

Engelland who was vastly overpaid to provide very similar defense capabilities as well a far more significant physical presence and the "A" in Vegas might indicate leadership was paid 2.9M for his 3 years in Calgary.


All the BS about a mid level first round draft choice not having equivalent value compared to Hamonic how many votes do we have for Hamonic being more important to the Flames than last years #16 pick.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Totally valid point on the expansion draft. I was wrong to think that the Flames should have protected Engelland.... well obviously they couldn't as he was a UFA.

With 20/20 hind sight UFA Backlund / Frolik / Ferland/ Sam and Lazar and Brodie looked a lot better at expansion draft time than they do today.

The point I am trying to make with Engelland was that Hamonic was brought in as a replacement and based on the 2016-17 season Hamonic was not an upgrade. Somehow the Flames management (and fan base) missed this

A common reason for acquiring Hamonic was keeping him away from Edmonton. That is never a good reason....

also he was a "value" contract at 3.85m for another 3 years.

Engelland who was vastly overpaid to provide very similar defense capabilities as well a far more significant physical presence and the "A" in Vegas might indicate leadership was paid 2.9M for his 3 years in Calgary.


All the BS about a mid level first round draft choice not having equivalent value compared to Hamonic how many votes do we have for Hamonic being more important to the Flames than last years #16 pick.

BY any measure Hamonic was an upgrade. He still is.