Van hits multiple pedestrians in Toronto

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

No. In fact if mental illness was the cause, hate might well not even enter into it. Psychopaths don't hate their victims, necessarily - often they don't care about them at all. In any event, these sorts of assumptions just further stigmatize people with mental illness.

[snootchiebootchies]

Here is an article that was published after the shooting in that church in Charleston that stuck in my head:

Hate Is a Mental Health Issue

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/barba...b_7653430.html

We need to recognize this type of hatred for what it is, a sign of severe emotional disturbance. And we need to take more responsibility for those around us who seem to be suffering — before their pain becomes unbearable and is turned inward against themselves or outward as it seemingly did with Dylann Roof. Think about this for a moment. Does someone who is mentally healthy commit unprovoked, premeditated murder? This type of overwhelming, all-consuming hatred cannot exist within an emotionally healthy human being.

Anger is a normal human emotion. And hatred can be an understandable reaction to abuse or trauma or loss. We can all imagine the hatred a victim might feel toward the rapist that attacked her or the rage a soldier might feel toward the insurgent who killed a battle buddy. As we heal through abuse or trauma or loss, we must move beyond hatred or we will most certainly become consumed by it. But if we are a 15-year-old kid living on the streets with little or no supervision, no guidance, and no love . . . if we find drugs and hatred before we find a healthy alternative, it is easy to imagine how hatred can twist our thoughts and shape our actions.

Some might accurately point out that not all kids from deprived or harsh backgrounds turn out to be racist or violent. Thankfully, we humans are complex creatures. Some of us have the capacity to overcome obstacles and find opportunities. But capacity doesn’t equate with certainty, and not every kid has the right combination of internal resources and good luck that allow someone to overcome a lousy roll of the environmental, familial, or genetic dice.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

But don't you have to be mentally ill to have that level of hate?

No hate and mental illness can be mutually exclusive, or are you going to say that every single member of the clan, the Nazi's and other hate based organizations were all under the grip of mental illness.

don't make excuses for them.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

But don't you have to be mentally ill to have that level of hate?

It's a different kind of mental illness. The one that gets you a NCR decision entails being delusional..usually schizophrenic...literally unable to tell the difference between reality and what is passing for reality in your mind. Just hating people isn't that at all.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

No hate and mental illness can be mutually exclusive, or are you going to say that every single member of the clan, the Nazi's and other hate based organizations were all under the grip of mental illness.

don't make excuses for them.

Yep, it absolutely can be a cause but don't just point to it and say "That's probably it!".

[CaptainCrunch]

To me, hate and anger are entirely normal human emotions.

A lack of empathy or moral compass when combined with hate and anger could be a mental illness, but emotions on their own, no.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

No hate and mental illness can be mutually exclusive, or are you going to say that every single member of the clan, the Nazi's and other hate based organizations were all under the grip of mental illness.

don't make excuses for them.

No, I don't think every member of the klan and the Nazis hated their victims or had mental illness. Just like I don't believe the members of the Sonderkommando or participants of Milgram's experiment were hateful or evil or sadists. I think it's much more complex than that.

At any rate, nowhere in my posts am I making an excuse for them. I still believe in punishing the mentally ill for their crimes. I do believe they should get treatment while in prison.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

But don't you have to be mentally ill to have that level of hate?

Absolutely not.

I watched a terrifying documentary a few years ago that focused on the way that some children were indoctrinated from a very young age into radicalism. I wish I could remember what it was called.

Those kids had no chance; it was all they knew literally from the time they were a toddler.

[Swift]

I believe I said this in one of the threads the last time this happened, but given how easy it is to just rent a van and run people down, it should give us some solace that it doesn't happen all the time. Fear tends to creep into people when events like this happen, but if there were tons of terrorists out there trying to kill us, wouldn't this kind of thing be happening every week? The fact that it doesn't would seem to indicate that the amount of people out there willing to do this is actually miniscule.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

Here is an article that was published after the shooting in that church in Charleston that stuck in my head:

Hate Is a Mental Health Issue

What a terrible take. Unforunately, you can basically find someone with credentials willing to write just about anything on the internet. Here's a better one, in my view.

http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcar...-the-scapegoat

Surveys have found that the majority of people believe that mental illness is directly correlated to violence. While it seems an easy place to point the finger, the reality is most individuals with mental illness are not violent.

Research supports that only three to five percent of all violent acts are committed by someone with mental illness. Instead they suffer from symptoms that cause a state of internal hell, not one they are wanting to push onto others. And in cases where the suspect ends up dead, we are left with whatever psychiatric records exist, if any. Without being able to conduct a psychiatric evaluation after-the-fact, we are only left with speculation.

In reality, people with mental illness are actually considered a vulnerable population. As a result they are more likely to experience an act of violence against them. People with mental illness are more likely to die from homicide than those without mental illness. They may have a harder time getting and maintaining employment. The average lifespan is decreased. Many are financially exploited. This population most often becomes the victims; they are not the ones victimizing.

Some mental illnesses do increase propensity for violence. But most don't, and attempting to broaden the definition to include normal human emotions like hatred or anger is simply contributing to further stigmatization and harm for people who have a hard enough time talking about their issues publicly without being misunderstood.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Absolutely not.

I watched a terrifying documentary a few years ago that focused on the way that some children were indoctrinated from a very young age into radicalism. I wish I could remember what it was called.

Those kids had no chance; it was all they knew literally from the time they were a toddler.

Children of ISIS comes to mind

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Absolutely not.

I watched a terrifying documentary a few years ago that focused on the way that some children were indoctrinated from a very young age into radicalism. I wish I could remember what it was called.

Those kids had no chance; it was all they knew literally from the time they were a toddler.

"Jesus Camp"

Probably not the terrifying documentary you were thinking of, but it certainly fits the description.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me, hate and anger are entirely normal human emotions.

A lack of empathy or moral compass when combined with hate and anger could be a mental illness, but emotions on their own, no.

Emotional reactions can be triggered by mental health issues, such as bipolar disorder.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Absolutely not.

I watched a terrifying documentary a few years ago that focused on the way that some children were indoctrinated from a very young age into radicalism. I wish I could remember what it was called.

Those kids had no chance; it was all they knew literally from the time they were a toddler.

Being indoctrinated is not the same as hate. Children are naturally obedient of authority figures, or they follow along because they are fearful for their lives. At any rate, I don't want to be seen as excusing this terrorist's behaviour so I'm going to stop posting about this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

I believe I said this in one of the threads the last time this happened, but given how easy it is to just rent a van and run people down, it should give us some solace that it doesn't happen all the time. Fear tends to creep into people when events like this happen, but if there were tons of terrorists out there trying to kill us, wouldn't this kind of thing be happening every week? The fact that it doesn't would seem to indicate that the amount of people out there willing to do this is actually miniscule.

1) we don't know how effective our police have been in deterring people before they can take action.

2) Some people that radicalize don't always take action or direct action

3) a successful event could trigger more events.

4) This is a simple capability talked about in interviews with ISIS and their propaganda rags.

5) I don't think we know enough about this creep yet to reach conclusions that this is actually something more.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Emotional reactions can be triggered by mental health issues, such as bipolar disorder.

Sure but the two aren't exclusively tied to each other.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

Here is an article that was published after the shooting in that church in Charleston that stuck in my head:

Hate Is a Mental Health Issue

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/barba...b_7653430.html

You know, it takes a lot to cause me to agree with both CliffFletcher and Corsi, but you pulled it off, Huffington Post. Well done.

What a ridiculously stupid article.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

Being indoctrinated is not the same as hate. Children are naturally obedient of authority figures, or they follow along because they are fearful for their lives. At any rate, I don't want to be seen as excusing this terrorist's behaviour so I'm going to stop posting about this.

huh?

Being indoctrinated creates hate.

In the beginning they're taught to hate, by their parents or their teachers, they're also taught to dehuminize their intended.

But they still hate, they aren't really fearful of their lives. The children that are indoctrinated don't hate because they're afraid of the consequences of not hating. They hate because they hate and its all they know.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

Being indoctrinated is not the same as hate. Children are naturally obedient of authority figures, or they follow along because they are fearful for their lives. At any rate, I don't want to be seen as excusing this terrorist's behaviour so I'm going to stop posting about this.

I think a person, especially when the process is started at a young and impressionable age, can be taught to hate. Radical Islam hates "us", make no mistake.

[metallicat]

Maybe you guys can take your discussion elsewhere? I mean, this just happened and you're derailing the thread with this argument about motive. Let's hear some news, as wrong as the news articles probably are right now.