Should Calgary Bid on the 2026 Olympics

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I agree that those projects are needed right now.
But just because I need something right now doesn't mean I'm willing to pay such a high premium for them.

I wasn't saying you specifically were selfish for wanting the games, I just think saying an Olympic bid is the only and/or best way to get those projects done is pretty short sighted.

Why do you keep saying they're going to be built at a premium? Do you have a source or verified projection on that?

Recreation facilities, like most all other projects, are bid on by the consultants with a certain fee, and then bid on by the contractor through their estimating departments. The estimated design / construction fees will play into who gets these projects. These firms do not collude with each other, since no one else knows who's bidding at any given time. and it's also illegal to do so. The competitive bids, combined with the right experience, are usually the ones that win.

[Northendzone]

So you have just increased the price tag by another 2 or 3 billion.

Originally Posted by edn88

I would love to see the Olympics in Calgary in 2026. Build a high speed rail line to Edmonton and let's share the games. Build a new rink for the Flames. Create some jobs by upgrading infrastructure. Continue the legacy of the 88 Olympics.

[Reneeee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That might be a useful comparison if those other things cost billions and billions of dollars.

The government sometimes spends $10 mil or $100 mil on things I don't like. So they may as well spend $6 billion* on something which would be kinda cool.

Such a terrible argument.

* I really do think some of this attitude is because people don't really have a concrete sense of the difference between $100 million and $6 billion. To use a graphical aid, $6 billion is:

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This attitude is what is wrong with the no crowd. Prior to 1988, Calgary was probably never considered a mecca for anything. Now we have one of the most world renowned Speed Skating Ovals in the world. Without the 88 Olympics that isn't possible and we wouldn't be getting the kickbacks on hotel and facility usage we've been getting for the past 30 years since. That's some of the intangible revenue that nobody considers when they hear 4-6 billion.

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[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by edn88

I would love to see the Olympics in Calgary in 2026. Build a high speed rail line to Edmonton and let's share the games. Build a new rink for the Flames. Create some jobs by upgrading infrastructure. Continue the legacy of the 88 Olympics.

That's a horrible idea. Let us never speak of it again. And we wouldn't get a new rink for the Flames if we were sharing with Edmonton. That would be the nail in the coffin on it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

This attitude is what is wrong with the no crowd. Prior to 1988, Calgary was probably never considered a mecca for anything. Now we have one of the most world renowned Speed Skating Ovals in the world. Without the 88 Olympics that isn't possible and we wouldn't be getting the kickbacks on hotel and facility usage we've been getting for the past 30 years since. That's some of the intangible revenue that nobody considers when they hear 4-6 billion.

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You are aware that the current proposed 4.6 billion Olympics give us no new sporting infrastructure and only a few revitalizations right?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

This attitude is what is wrong with the no crowd. Prior to 1988, Calgary was probably never considered a mecca for anything. Now we have one of the most world renowned Speed Skating Ovals in the world. Without the 88 Olympics that isn't possible and we wouldn't be getting the kickbacks on hotel and facility usage we've been getting for the past 30 years since. That's some of the intangible revenue that nobody considers when they hear 4-6 billion.

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And the problem with the yes folks is they severely overstate the benefits. No offense to the speed skating crowd and all, but if a speed skating oval was a huge economic driver, Vancouver would have kept theirs instead of re-purposing it. It's a minor bonus, but I would equate this to be similar to the claim that an arena will drive visitors to come for shows. The amount of money is probably not all that material relative to the cost, but it's a nice talking point if you support the Olympics.

[Reneeee]

Originally Posted by GGG

You are aware that the current proposed 4.6 billion Olympics give us no new sporting infrastructure and only a few revitalizations right?

I think if we get the Olympics an arena will be heavily pushed forward by all parties involved. And as others mentioned high speed rail links

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[GGG]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

I think if we get the Olympics an arena will be heavily pushed forward by all parties involved. And as others mentioned high speed rail links

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So the 20 billion dollar Olympics with high speed rail between Banff and Edmonton and an Arena. Let's just make sure we keep the price tag straight with what we get for how much money.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

This attitude is what is wrong with the no crowd. Prior to 1988, Calgary was probably never considered a mecca for anything. Now we have one of the most world renowned Speed Skating Ovals in the world. Without the 88 Olympics that isn't possible and we wouldn't be getting the kickbacks on hotel and facility usage we've been getting for the past 30 years since. That's some of the intangible revenue that nobody considers when they hear 4-6 billion.

I'm glad you find winter sports like speedskating and ski jumping so incredibly gratifying. Me, I'm more of an education, roads, and health care kinda guy.

It's probably a good idea at this point to explain my stance towards the future of public services and spending. Given the demographic waterfall Canada is poised to plunge over, along with the relentless erosion of the middle class and the threat of automation destroying whole sectors of the economy, I have serious doubts about the long-term solvency of our government balance sheets. I think in 20 to 30 years our revenues may be so depleted, and the demands on our pensions and health care so high, that we may be forced to simultaneously make deep cuts to pensions, education, and health care, while steeply ramping up taxes to pay for them. Alternatively, the wealthiest 20 per cent may simply cut the rest of society loose and live in privatized enclaves.

So that's the context of my opposition to spending billions on a winter sports party.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Muta

Why do you keep saying they're going to be built at a premium? Do you have a source or verified projection on that?

Recreation facilities, like most all other projects, are bid on by the consultants with a certain fee, and then bid on by the contractor through their estimating departments. The estimated design / construction fees will play into who gets these projects. These firms do not collude with each other, since no one else knows who's bidding at any given time. and it's also illegal to do so. The competitive bids, combined with the right experience, are usually the ones that win.

I’m saying they are being built at a premium because they are being built along with an Olympic bid. That’s the premium, putting on the games, not that contractors are going to collude with each other and bid higher.

My point has been pretty clear. If the infrastructure is important enough, and needed, then just build it, don’t use the Olympics as an excuse to build something. We can spend money on the needed projects, or we can spend money on the needed projects AND pay the IOC and all the other costs that come with hosting the games.. One is substantially cheaper.

[woob]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'm glad you find winter sports like speedskating and ski jumping so incredibly gratifying. Me, I'm more of an education, roads, and health care kinda guy.

It's probably a good idea at this point to explain my stance towards the future of public services and spending. Given the demographic waterfall Canada is poised to plunge over, along with the relentless erosion of the middle class and the threat of automation destroying whole sectors of the economy, I have serious doubts about the long-term solvency of our government balance sheets. I think in 20 to 30 years our revenues may be so depleted, and the demands on our pensions and health care so high, that we may be forced to simultaneously make deep cuts to pensions, education, and health care, while steeply ramping up taxes to pay for them. Alternatively, the wealthiest 20 per cent may simply cut the rest of society loose and live in privatized enclaves.

So that's the context of my opposition to spending billions on a winter sports party.

[Fuzz]

CliffFletcher. What Eeyore would be like if he was more talkative.

Spoiler!

[Northendzone]

i think that a high speed rail link would be a white elephant.

high speed rail links would result in a mate for the first white elephant.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

I think if we get the Olympics an arena will be heavily pushed forward by all parties involved.

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what parties? nobody is saying the olympics actually need a new arena.
why would the provincial or federal government give calgary money for an arena if the IOC itself says one isn't needed?
why drive up the cost by another 500 million for no reason other than "the flames can then use it"?

[Reneeee]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

what parties? nobody is saying the olympics actually need a new arena.
why would the provincial or federal government give calgary money for an arena if the IOC itself says one isn't needed?
why drive up the cost by another 500 million for no reason other than "the flames can then use it"?

Flames, City, private business etc.

Having the saddledome as our showpiece for a 2026 Olympics with a 43 year old arena would be reason enough for an update and some funding

It needs to be built anyways, so spend 500 mill now instead of 800 mill in 10 years time.

I feel having an Olympics without at least 1 new facility is a missed opportunity

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[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

Flames, City, private business etc.

Having the saddledome as our showpiece for a 2026 Olympics with a 43 year old arena would be reason enough for an update and some funding

It needs to be built anyways, so spend 500 mill now instead of 800 mill in 10 years time.

I feel having an Olympics without at least 1 new facility is a missed opportunity

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If it's needed, then the Flames can pay for it.
Let the Flames pay $500 million now instead of taxpayers paying $500 million now, and another couple billion to put on the Olympics.

[Reneeee]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

If it's needed, then the Flames can pay for it.
Let the Flames pay $500 million now instead of taxpayers paying $500 million now, and another couple billion to put on the Olympics.

I never mentioned the city would be footing the full bill. I only insinuated that the flames and city would be more willing to work out a deal with an Olympic deadline in mind. Right now it's been a ten year pet project by the teams mismanaged executives

I agree the Flames can pay for it but so far we've seen an unwillingness to bend on both sides of that deal. I'm just suggesting that a hard 2024-2025 deadline to get the building built and operational might be the kick in the pants this sleeping negotiation needs

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[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

I never mentioned the city would be footing the full bill. I only insinuated that the flames and city would be more willing to work out a deal with an Olympic deadline in mind. Right now it's been a ten year pet project by the teams mismanaged executives

I agree the Flames can pay for it but so far we've seen an unwillingness to bend on both sides of that deal. I'm just suggesting that a hard 2024-2025 deadline to get the building built and operational might be the kick in the pants this sleeping negotiation needs

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But even if the Flames foot 100% of the bill for the Arena using the Olympics as a reason to build it is silly, as it puts the city, province, and feds down a couple billion for hosting the games.

[troutman]

No respect to the great athletes, but attendance at Oval events is pretty much friends and family, and people from the Netherlands?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

what parties? nobody is saying the olympics actually need a new arena.
why would the provincial or federal government give calgary money for an arena if the IOC itself says one isn't needed?
why drive up the cost by another 500 million for no reason other than "the flames can then use it"?

The report for the 4.6 billion Olympics identifies using a new arena but does not include any Capital funding for it. I'm not sure where this IOC says we don't need a new arena comes from. I think they said the Saddledome is a suitable venue for the Olympics. This is different as you need 1 for Figure Skating / Short track, one for Hockey and one for low attendance hockey / training.