[PGT] Coyotes 4 Flames 1

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Its like you've noted, those shots aren't exactly of the dangerous variety. The Flames throw a lot of shots on net. Not necessarily a lot behind them though.

Yep. A high quantity of low quality shots simply doesn't create success.

We've lost 14 games this year where we had at least 39 shots on goal.

That's not just bad luck or lack of finish. That's bad system and bad special teams.

[Robbob]

The PP last night was probably as dangerous as it has been all season. I think I heard them say we generated 7 high danger chances. Just nothing is working and it is getting to the point it is a cruel hockey god joke. At this point everything is so in their heads they probably are crying themselves to sleep.

Probably can all be traced back to Jobu. Flames went above the hockey gods. I think the message has been received loud and clear. Hopefully it is oer and done with now and we can move on to the next season.

[Locke]

Yeah, that was less exciting than trying to watch Gulutzan coach himself out of a wet paper bag.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Its like you've noted, those shots aren't exactly of the dangerous variety. The Flames throw a lot of shots on net. Not necessarily a lot behind them though.

So why is it that so many of those same low-quality, low-danger types of shots somehow elude Gillies? Most of the goals I've seen scored on him seem to be from 40+ feet out, not too hard, 2'-3' off the ice, and he just waves an arm at them as they float by. Sure, sometimes there's a deflection, but most are not *hard* shots by any means. But they get to the twine.

How come the Flames' shots don't get there too?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So why is it that so many of those same low-quality, low-danger types of shots somehow elude Gillies? Most of the goals I've seen scored on him seem to be from 40+ feet out, not too hard, 2'-3' off the ice, and he just waves an arm at them as they float by. Sure, sometimes there's a deflection, but most are not *hard* shots by any means. But they get to the twine.

How come the Flames' shots don't get there too?

Because other teams aren’t playing rookie back ups.

[Resolute 14]

In part, because Gillies sucks.

In part, because the Coyotes got pucks through screens and took advantage of it.

In part, because they got bodies to the net to take advantage of rebounds, scrambles and chaos. That, incidentally, is how we scored our lone goal as well. We just don't do it enough.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So why is it that so many of those same low-quality, low-danger types of shots somehow elude Gillies? Most of the goals I've seen scored on him seem to be from 40+ feet out, not too hard, 2'-3' off the ice, and he just waves an arm at them as they float by. Sure, sometimes there's a deflection, but most are not *hard* shots by any means. But they get to the twine.

How come the Flames' shots don't get there too?

Last night? 3 deflections (2 off Flames players) and a screen.

Otherwise the Flames do a poor job of getting traffic in front (goalies sees everything) and staying there to clean up. Most often they find the slot, shoot, roll back. Or they fire it from the point and miss.

[Otto-matic]

https://twitter.com/user/status/981547525785182208

[Geeoff]

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by _Q_

This team is proof positive that Corsi/Fenwick are trash stats.

Maybe a good team will naturally have good advanced stats, but good advanced stats don't predict whether or not a team is good. Playing hockey to just maximize shot attempts is straight up stupid.

Cool we haven't had this argument before!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

https://twitter.com/user/status/981547525785182208

At least in 1997 people weren't expecting much from those teams.

I find it hard to describe how much this season has been disappointing.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

At least in 1997 people weren't expecting much from those teams.

I find it hard to describe how much this season has been disappointing.

Hulse, Hulse, has no pulse!

That's just an effing pathetic stat line. Unbelievable.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yep. A high quantity of low quality shots simply doesn't create success.

We've lost 14 games this year where we had at least 39 shots on goal.

That's not just bad luck or lack of finish. That's bad system and bad special teams.

The heat map from last night pretty much shows it ... shots from everywhere with very little chance of scoring.

In all fairness they had more going on then the Coyotes, but the shot count and corsi event count was inflated by terrible shots.

[Calgary4LIfe]

This year's Flames team has made me think up another stat to watch. Shots at goalie while goalie is in position and ready.

I don't know if I am actually watching with bias now or not, but it seems like Calgary's goalies get much more of a workout out there than the opposing goalies, regardless of shots on net. It does SEEM like the majority of the shots on net that the Flames get have the goalie perfectly in position with eyes on the puck.

Someone needs to count shots where the goalie has to actually move to change position to actually make a safe (i.e. more than just putting a pad down or moving one of their arms - actually having to adjust their position relative to the net is what I mean here).

It SEEMS to me that the Flames don't make the goalie move as much. I wish I thought of this earlier, or I may have started counting them myself to make sure I am just not fed-up and just seeing what I want to see (which seems to me like a very easy fix for a new coach).

[Toonage]

I don't think you're far off. How many times do the Flames face a back up and he looks like nothing can get by him?

[Tron_fdc]

Getting pretty tired of this whole "unlucky" garbage. Wills is pretty aggravating on the radio making excuses every day when he's on.....someone in the media needs to call them out for what they are.

This team is a perimeter team. Cycle cycle cycle, throw a muffin on net, stand around and watch, rinse and repeat. Stay in position, make sure you can transition back to defence, and try to score from low danger areas (the areas teams let you shoot from, because the goalie is going to stop 99.9999% of the wrist shots from the top of the circle).

From my standpoint the reason Foo and Bennett looked good last night was because they were driving the net. How many times was Foo on the doorstep ramming the goalie creating chaos? How many times has the rest of the team done that? They don't. Outside of Gio (a defenceman!!) there are 3 or 4 guys that drive the net and create secondary chances. Shore did it , and look what happened. He drove the net after a shot, and sure enough there was the rebound and an empty net.

It sure seems to me that Gulutzans system involves a lot of perimeter play making. This makes a goalies life pretty easy when he's not getting screened, and his dmen are clearing rebounds almost completely unopposed. The high shot count is totally misleading here, and so are the stats. Sure, the players are trying......it just isn't going to matter when the system is set up the way it is. Gaudreau and Monahan can play in this system because they are skilled enough to do it (Gaudreau is a perimeter playmaker, Monahan an elite finisher anywhere around the slot). The rest of the team isn't, and that's a major problem with the coaching and not adjusting to players strengths.

The sooner we get a coach to create an identity and let guys like Tkachuk and Bennett run goalies outside the crease and crash the net the better. Same with Foo, the guy looks like a player; but someone in the game thread said it best when they said that the offense "hasn't been coached out of him yet" and IMO that's 100% true.

I apologize if this has been said 10000x already, but this has got to be one of the most frustrating seasons I've seen in a LONG time.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Getting pretty tired of this whole "unlucky" garbage. Wills is pretty aggravating on the radio making excuses every day when he's on.....someone in the media needs to call them out for what they are.

This team is a perimeter team. Cycle cycle cycle, throw a muffin on net, stand around and watch, rinse and repeat. Stay in position, make sure you can transition back to defence, and try to score from low danger areas (the areas teams let you shoot from, because the goalie is going to stop 99.9999% of the wrist shots from the top of the circle).

From my standpoint the reason Foo and Bennett looked good last night was because they were driving the net. How many times was Foo on the doorstep ramming the goalie creating chaos? How many times has the rest of the team done that? They don't. Outside of Gio (a defenceman!!) there are 3 or 4 guys that drive the net and create secondary chances. Shore did it , and look what happened. He drove the net after a shot, and sure enough there was the rebound and an empty net.

It sure seems to me that Gulutzans system involves a lot of perimeter play making. This makes a goalies life pretty easy when he's not getting screened, and his dmen are clearing rebounds almost completely unopposed. The high shot count is totally misleading here, and so are the stats. Sure, the players are trying......it just isn't going to matter when the system is set up the way it is. Gaudreau and Monahan can play in this system because they are skilled enough to do it (Gaudreau is a perimeter playmaker, Monahan an elite finisher anywhere around the slot). The rest of the team isn't, and that's a major problem with the coaching and not adjusting to players strengths.

The sooner we get a coach to create an identity and let guys like Tkachuk and Bennett run goalies outside the crease and crash the net the better. Same with Foo, the guy looks like a player; but someone in the game thread said it best when they said that the offense "hasn't been coached out of him yet" and IMO that's 100% true.

I apologize if this has been said 10000x already, but this has got to be one of the most frustrating seasons I've seen in a LONG time.

Exactly this.

They might win the Corsi-Cup or whatever and pad the shot-clock but none of their shots are dangerous.

Goalies in today's game are too good, if they get all the time in the world to get square to the shot it likely isnt going to go in.

Unless you're playing against Brian Elliott.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Locke

Exactly this.

They might win the Corsi-Cup or whatever and pad the shot-clock but none of their shots are dangerous.

Goalies in today's game are too good, if they get all the time in the world to get square to the shot it likely isnt going to go in.

Unless you're playing against Brian Elliott.

The level of disdain for simple counting stats on this site is mind blowing, and I hope the Flames don't fall into either of the following traps when the season is over.

a) go only on advanced stats and assume everything is fine
b) assume the counting stats are wrong and just blow things up (coach, key players)

They likely are already doing so, but I'd get the analytics team to look at the Bruins, Lightning, etc and the Flames for a randam ten game (or more segment) and isolate each high danger chance the teams get and give. Then compile this data and look at why they are different, perhaps assigning a measure 1 (really freaking dangerous), 2 (kind of dangerous) and 3 (in the correct zone but not very dangerous).

See what that shows.

If it is bad luck then act accordingly.

If the Flames and their structure have found a way to run up scoring chance totals that aren't scoring chances then the system is brutal and you nuke the coach.

But this isn't as simple as "perimeter team winning the corsi battle" because they have great scoring chance totals and great scoring chance differentials.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In part, because Gillies sucks.

In part, because the Coyotes got pucks through screens and took advantage of it.

In part, because they got bodies to the net to take advantage of rebounds, scrambles and chaos. That, incidentally, is how we scored our lone goal as well. We just don't do it enough.

In part, because our forwards gave their defensemen way too much time and space in our zone. No pressure, just another body for the screen

[activeStick]

Gaudreau's absence is usually the one brought up the most as having impact on scoring which I agree has a huge impact, but the current results should remind us how important Monahan is to Gaudreau's production as well.