[PGT] The Flames didn't win

[Bunk]

I left the building after 40 I am slightly ashamed to say. It was a painful exercise.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No offense but bull.
People are motivated short-term by traditional carrot/stick methodologies but in the long-term they are motivated by deeper items

Autonomy
Purpose
Mastery

And a lot of that comes from within and then a manager taps into it understanding what motivates specific individuals. We can debate how effective GG is at that, but I would say we have little to no insight on that.

These guys should be going out there with drive largely for self-motivation reasons. They have all sorts of reasons why they should "go out there with drive and confidence". If they can find those within themselves we have the wrong guys.

But to go back to my point, if I don't show up ready to work, I get fired. My manager isn't going to put a lot of time to try and motivate me. He's going to fire me.

So get pragmatic about this though. It’s fine to say just get different players, but changing over an entire roster is a near impossible task.

When I’m teaching someone in my profession, ideally I have extremely talented and motivated people. But I don’t always have that, and when that occurs I don’t just throw my hands up and say “the people we have aren’t good enough!”. I try to find different ways to help them be better, whether that is finding ways to help their performance, or their motivation and commitment level. Even if they are lacking motivation or natural aptitude, I am still going to do whatever I can to get maximum performance out of them, not just tell HR to fire them and hire new people.

The idea is even more exacerbated in competitive athletics, where the smallest of incremental performance improvements can make the difference between winning and losing.

When you have a whole team of players collectively bombing far too often, a team that a few years ago were very hard working, resilient, and consistently competitive. And your best solution is to turn over the entire roster as opposed to changing the leadership?

Even if you cling to that idea of a complete player overhaul, it’s completely unrealistic. And when you have 15 of 18 skaters coming out flat so often, at some point you have to look for the structural reasons why that is happening, not just trade the 15 players that consistently come out unready to compete at the required levels.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I left the building after 40 I am slightly ashamed to say. It was a painful exercise.

Shame on the Flames, not you. It was worth a miss. That last 20 minutes of a home game was a predictable script we’ve seen too often, plus a possible serious injury to a key player.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I left the building after 40 I am slightly ashamed to say. It was a painful exercise.

I have zero intentions of buying any more tickets for the rest of the season. Which is sad because I really enjoy the experience at the dome but this team just sucks the fun out of it.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Red

Silly talk. Employee engagement and motivation is a big part of all work places. And for a good reason, unless you want people to do just enough to not get fired.
It's only magnified 100 fold when you manage a bunch of spoiled millionaires on guaranteed contracts. It is a lot harder than just telling them to suck it up and be professionals.
Coach GG appears to be a very mellow person. His system is in some ways unconventional and he has no results to back it up and sell it to the players. All things considered, it's probably tough for the guys to go out there with any drive and confidence.

Not silly talk at all ! What generation did you grow up in? I was taught, and I taught all my kids that when you get a job you should feel honoured that they chose you to work for them and you should show your gratitude every day by being on time, trying to be their best employee and giving it %100 percent each and every day. When your employer sees you coming he should have a big smile on his face because you are valued for your work ethic.

I'm sorry but if the realization that you are fortunate to have a job , not to mention your own work ethics, isn't enough motivation then you would never work for me. There's plenty of people out there looking for work with the right attitude .

Now as for this hockey team, we could use more players like Giordano, Chucky and Smith to name a few. They were raised properly. Too many entitled passengers on this team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

When you have a whole team of players collectively bombing far too often, a team that a few years ago were very hard working, resilient, and consistently competitive. And your best solution is to turn over the entire roster as opposed to changing the leadership?

Even if you cling to that idea of a complete player overhaul, it’s completely unrealistic. And when you have 15 of 18 skaters coming out flat so often, at some point you have to look for the structural reasons why that is happening, not just trade the 15 players that consistently come out unready to compete at the required levels.

First, the players aren't all bombing. Some players are performing very well and that can't be ignored even though it doesn't fit the overall storyline or that it hasn't produced the results in the standings.

Second, while it may be naive to say you can overhaul the roster, it is equally naive to think you can fix this stuff if motivation or commitment is a core problem with the roster itself.

Overall I actually see things as follows
- This roster isn't as good as people thought it was, primarily due to a lack of natural goal scoring, and a terrible RW group
- Thus expectations were too high
- The team has still under-performed due to a combination of lack of goal scoring (particularly timely goal scoring), special teams, an injury to their MVP at the worst time, and yes - some bad luck.
- The inability for them to win games they should have (and by that I mean win games where they outplayed the opponents) has made it more difficult to maintain buy-in

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Why is that??

Every othe top talen in the NHL does it . McDavid, Crosby , Malkin, Taveres.......

Is it because he is a small player? St loius did ..Fluery did.. Gerbe did ..Byron does it .. Gallagher you name namr it another small player has done it.

The one thing that drives me nuts about Gaudreau is the way he shys away from shots and contact . He is pushed of the puck waaayytto easy.

I know its hard to argue his flaws when he racks up points but it is also pretty easy to neutralize him if the team just takes the body instard of trying to match his foot speed.


The point being is no player on a team should be allowed the exception of not blockimg shots or being physical.

I agree with most of your points, especially the blocking shots part. But reality is, Gaudreau is a small player and isn't going to win many 1 on 1 battles along the boards. But he does things other players can't do, and that's to utilise his shiftiness and quickness. IMO it's a worthwhile trade-off.

But I will say that I have noticed him using his body A LOT more in ways that benefit him. He'll often put his back to the player attempting to check him and often leans on the other player and rolls off him. He's getting really good at doing it, and it reminds me of what Jagr does when he sticks his ass out and the opponent can't get to his stick. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he picked that up from Jagr. Gaudreau isn't going to win a physical battle going face to face with a bigger guy. But when his back is turned to the checker, he's quite good at rolling off the player and protecting the puck by not letting the opponent getting to his front.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I agree with most of your points, especially the blocking shots part. But reality is, Gaudreau is a small player and isn't going to win many 1 on 1 battles along the boards. But he does things other players can't do, and that's to utilise his shiftiness and quickness. IMO it's a worthwhile trade-off.

But I will say that I have noticed him using his body A LOT more in ways that benefit him. He'll often put his back to the player attempting to check him and often leans on the other player and rolls off him. He's getting really good at doing it, and it reminds me of what Jagr does when he sticks his ass out and the opponent can't get to his stick. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he picked that up from Jagr. Gaudreau isn't going to win a physical battle going face to face with a bigger guy. But when his back is turned to the checker, he's quite good at rolling off the player and protecting the puck by not letting the opponent getting to his front.

IMO Jagr earned every single penny of his contract this season. Sure he didn't play much but the younger players like Johnny, Benny and Chucky seemed to have really soaked up everything from him. Chucky is absoutley dominate behind the net by utilizing that sticking his ass out play, something he didn't quite do last year.

[Looch City]

I hope the Dome is empty by the last home game.

We are not the Oilers, we won't accept this garbage show.

[Corral]

Expectations here on CP were too high for this roster. This is currently a team that rides the fence on playoffs or no playoffs. Whether this changes in the next couple seasons depends of course largely on the progression of the core which is highly promising but patience is needed. What is really really missing from this roster is a solid #1 goaltender in his mid to late twenties. If the Flames don't find that person - this team is not going to progress as hoped.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

First, the players aren't all bombing. Some players are performing very well and that can't be ignored even though it doesn't fit the overall storyline or that it hasn't produced the results in the standings.

Second, while it may be naive to say you can overhaul the roster, it is equally naive to think you can fix this stuff if motivation or commitment is a core problem with the roster itself.

Overall I actually see things as follows
- This roster isn't as good as people thought it was, primarily due to a lack of natural goal scoring, and a terrible RW group
- Thus expectations were too high
- The team has still under-performed due to a combination of lack of goal scoring (particularly timely goal scoring), special teams, an injury to their MVP at the worst time, and yes - some bad luck.
- The inability for them to win games they should have (and by that I mean win games where they outplayed the opponents) has made it more difficult to maintain buy-in

This is bang on.

Now if you have a poor work environment, often times poor management is a significant contributing factor. Good leaders are able to influence culture. If a lack of preparation is tolerated by management, or perceived to be tolerated, then a low performing culture will begin to fester.

Of course I have no idea what the hell happens in the Flames locker room so it is all guess work.

But we may as well deal in reality. Does anyone thing trading Brodie for a scoring winger will really have a dramatic effect on this team's fortunes? We're not getting a superstar for Brodie. Bringing back a similar team with the same coaching staff would be one gigantic risk for the organization unless they truly want to alienate their Calgary fans and make it easier to get out of town.

You could trade one of the team's "stars", but there is already a lack of high end talent on this team. Any trade probably brings you back less skill, not more.

Gio, by all accounts, is a great human being and a good captain. I'd be curious what he truly thinks should be different with the Flames. But as good as he might be, he has very little experience with winning at a professional level.

[ForeverFlameFan]

It’s not over until we’re officially eliminated. But man, those two quick goals by NYI just broke my heart. We’re so much better than this. Unfortunately, we have no finishers on this team.

I really hope we can beat Edmonton just to give us a fresh start against them for next season rather than having them in our heads.

Those games against the Sharks (x2), Ducks and Kings are pretty crucial.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by UK flame

If you've ever had a bad manager it's easy to know how you can become demoralised even doing a job you love.

While I agree with the sentiment, in pro sports, I don't think its nearly the same.

GG is apparently a players coach, players seem to like him and what he does, but he hasn't had success.

Hartley was a coach that was horrendous with the players, belittling them and making them feel small, yet he got success.

I would imagine that the team morale during the Hartley environment is significantly worse than GG's.

Purely speculation, maybe in GG's locker room, it's nonchalant and systematic, thus why we all feel the team lacks emotion. But I have zero clue what happens behind closed doors.

[Husky]

Give credit where credit is due - Gibson made at least half dozen unreal saves.

[Red]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Not silly talk at all ! What generation did you grow up in? I was taught, and I taught all my kids that when you get a job you should feel honoured that they chose you to work for them and you should show your gratitude every day by being on time, trying to be their best employee and giving it %100 percent each and every day. When your employer sees you coming he should have a big smile on his face because you are valued for your work ethic.

I'm sorry but if the realization that you are fortunate to have a job , not to mention your own work ethics, isn't enough motivation then you would never work for me. There's plenty of people out there looking for work with the right attitude .

Now as for this hockey team, we could use more players like Giordano, Chucky and Smith to name a few. They were raised properly. Too many entitled passengers on this team.

This is all true if you are a brick layer or a drywaller.
But this is about managing top 1% of hockey players around the globe. You can keep preaching to your kids, but it matters not when you are an NHL player.
We see this and hear about it all the time. Motivation. Playing for each other, how to make your stars tick, etc. All nonsense?

And for the record, I am of the older generation that knows all about paying your dues and working hard etc. But being in a corporate environment for 20 years, I understand what lengths managers have to go through to get the most of their people.

But whatever, keep thinking that every professional hockey player will give you 100% just for pride and satisfaction.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

I've tried to convince myself before the game it was right to put Smith in, eventhough i felt a hot Rittich is a safe bet unlike cold Smith coming back from injury. Gully is players coach and regarding goaltending, he will always do what his number one wants. But to not pull him after 2nd goal and not even after 1st period is just dumb. Reading what Smith said in post game interview feels like he was frustrated with the lack of hard effort in his zone, no bodies in shooting lines and poor coverage around the crease. But if Rittich had that bad game, he would say only this: I was bad. Boys played really well but I did not made those saves. I have to be better...

First two goals were bad bounces...you have to get the starter in at some point. What would be the point of pulling him? Was better to let him work through it. He was solid the rest of the game.

[442scotty]

Mike Smith commented about a lack of commitment after the game and brought up blocking shots. On the first two goals last night the forwards moved towards the defencemen at the point. Jankowski ( who I'm a fan off) made like a telephone pole and provided a great screen. Thanks but no thanks Janko! Get down and at least make a real effort to block the shot and the same goes to Brouwer!

Hartley had his guys blocking shots properly I'm sure or it would be bag skate time.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Corral

Expectations here on CP were too high for this roster. This is currently a team that rides the fence on playoffs or no playoffs. Whether this changes in the next couple seasons depends of course largely on the progression of the core which is highly promising but patience is needed. What is really really missing from this roster is a solid #1 goaltender in his mid to late twenties. If the Flames don't find that person - this team is not going to progress as hoped.

I think with the right coach, this roster can make the playoffs.

I actually can't wait to close the book on the Gulutzan era. Such uninspired hockey. I doubt Quenville gets canned, but Tippett, Darryl and Ruff are available and I am OK with any of those three. If Coach Q becomes available, it'll add to the intrigue.

I almost wish they'd lose 3 games quickly so the misery ends. If they do the unthinkable and win 9 of 12, then I will be happy to go to a playoff game or two.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

Purely speculation, maybe in GG's locker room, it's nonchalant and systematic, thus why we all feel the team lacks emotion. But I have zero clue what happens behind closed doors.

It might be coincidental, but the team played their best hockey of the season after the GG stick throwing incident. Hockey is a game of passion, not just x's and o's. I have previously mentioned that things like motivation and pure will are going to be required for the team to get where it wants to be, only to be told by certain posters that those things only exist in Disney movies. We've all seen enough intense playoff race or playoff hockey to know that teams that find that extra emotional gear often tend to come out on top. The season is a grind and you can't just rely strictly on metrics to see where the chips fall by the year's end, there are times where the team really needs a push -- and often that push needs to come from behind the bench.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

First, the players aren't all bombing. Some players are performing very well and that can't be ignored even though it doesn't fit the overall storyline or that it hasn't produced the results in the standings.

Second, while it may be naive to say you can overhaul the roster, it is equally naive to think you can fix this stuff if motivation or commitment is a core problem with the roster itself.

Overall I actually see things as follows
- This roster isn't as good as people thought it was, primarily due to a lack of natural goal scoring, and a terrible RW group
- Thus expectations were too high
- The team has still under-performed due to a combination of lack of goal scoring (particularly timely goal scoring), special teams, an injury to their MVP at the worst time, and yes - some bad luck.
- The inability for them to win games they should have (and by that I mean win games where they outplayed the opponents) has made it more difficult to maintain buy-in

No amount of skill will make up for lack of commitment or motivation. But you can win on effort alone. We see this every night. How do the Coyotes beat anyone? Oilers? How do the Sabres beat TB?
In an 82 game season it happens a lot. Teams/players take nights off. Your coaches job is to limit those nights. The Flames have been mailing it in all year.
I don't see any fire in the way GG talks. He is a boring analytical person that talks with little confidence. Not a leader.